Dell vs. Apple: 10 Years Later

“Well gee Ryan, tell me, which PC games CAN’T I run on a Mac?? Have you caught the fact that you can install Windows on any Intel Mac? (as virtualisation or dual-boot) And that it in fact runs BETTER that on a “normal” PC due to lightyears LESS guess-work as far as drivers etc. are concerned? (all needed drivers provided by Apple not 137 different companies that don’t know what the other 136 are doing!)

How many Mac-only games can YOU run? … none? Oops. I guess that means my Mac is the better gaming machine, no?

But yes, if that’s ALL you want to do all day is PLAY, then you can get a better PURE GAMING machine for Windows for cheaper. Just don’t expect to be able to do even the simplest A/V or rather multimedia chores on that same machine once you grow up and actually decide to do some worthwhile WORK.”
Umm… Not to be rude but since this conversation is about Dell and Mac rather than Windows and Mac, Dell spends millions making sure the drivers and correspondent hardware work perfectly together. And to answer your question, yes I can run any Mac OS on my PC and if I actually found any Mac-only software worth using I could run that also. To sum it all up - since both OS’s are cross-compatible with either set of hardware it is basically the hardware you are paying for. And since Mac hardware is way overpriced (if a little pretty), I would go for a PC any day. But then again, Germans know best, right?
And I agree with Patch… the whole idea of Apple is that it is simplified. For a “techy”, Windows is far superior because of its almost limitlessly customizable interface.

Both OS systems have their benifits and disadvantages. I use Windows and a PC because I work with Windows with my work so I am use to the it. My parents both have Macs. Yes, they are nice machines but too expensive. I also am one of those techy types so I don’t like the AOL type of OS system that Mac provides. I actually believe that Mac have a closed architecture and not alot of SW programs are out there for it as much as there are for Windows. As for the instability of Windows this is merely because there are so many outside SW companies producing software in attempts to stablize it with Windows. With Macs , Apple strictly makes all of the extra media software.

What’s Apple? And what’s a Dell?

Well, at least it seems more funny than people arguing about what computer/OS they use and who is better…

Either way they’re all corporate conglomerates out to make money, and control/monopolize as much as they can; let’s face it. It doesn’t matter how much you all paint a rosey picture of “innovation” and superior products and what not, it’s America, it’s about money baby.

People are always biased in their view of products and consumer goods. It also extends to business ethics/practices, “innovation”, market share, shareholders, etc. It’s hard to remove yourself from the situation, when everyone is biased- and not that that’s a bad thing. Everyone has their biases, it’s human.

Some people are not die hard computer users, or tech geeks. To some people, price is an issue and perhaps they can’t afford the most expensive, top of the line product.

If you all want to be the champions of free enterprise and make your insecure egos feel good by buying products from “ethical” companies, than just stop buying EVERYTHING. As much as you all lay into people for lack of “research” (if any of you even know what it really, truly is), you should research the other products you buy and you’d be surprised of the history behind MANY companies and their practices

When you’re the top dog of anything, everyone will attack you, for what it’s worth. That’s just the way it is.

I’m not for or against either company really. While Microsoft is a marketing whore, Apple is guilty of the same thing as of late– competition and money.

So is this comment really worth anything? Not really, just kind of pointing out the fallacies that some of you are arguing about business ethics, innovation, monopolies, etc.

Use the computer you want, for what “work” you do. Being a college student, I don’t do much on mine but type papers and check email, so a PC machine works for me, and at a cheap cost. So not matter how much I’m told to get a Mac for all the “work” I do, it doesn’t pertain to me as much. Am I getting the most for my money? Maybe not. Is it tricked out? Nope. Is it a great investment for 10 years down the road (when it’ll be obsolete regardless)?? Probably not, but there’s other things in the world to consider. If someone uses Macs to produce music/video etc, well that’s more than I would personally ever need, but kudos to the guy who uses a MAC for that.

Attacking people for a computer they use is simply retarded. It’s like trying to debate what car/truck is better…sure there’s technical data and this and that, but it all comes down to preference.

Bottom line, just thought I’d add my 2 cents, and I’m sure many will disagree. So my precious ego won’t be too fragile =)

Yes, but the main difference between them is that Dell doesn’t make Ipod.

Anyway, Apple is not really a computer builder (yes, Dell builds Apple’s computers (and it’s not new)), the only thing they do is to put a design and ask some contractors the best prices to get their computer ready. It’s a good strategy thought.

Also what I don’t like with Apple is their “priority” systems (like for using and Ipod you must use iTunes, you can only use Mac OS on mac’s and so on) .

Also Mac’s prices are way too high for the hardware inside… I think the only good point is the design (it’s so hype to own a Mac).

Mr. Dell was absolutely right there. Note that the keyword is “I”. Shutting down to not lose money is probably the best he could have done for any company in Apple’s situation. This is a humble and wise statement from Mr. Dell.

Actually, TC, the earlier commenter had it right — Apple bought staff from Xerox (i.e., hiring them away), but they didn’t license any code from PARC. When Apple tried to sue Microsoft over Windows, Xerox in turn sued Apple for the same thing, although it was ruled Xerox had let the statute of limitations run out. (Google “xerox apple lawsuit” for more info on this.)

However, having actually used a Xerox Star (okay, in emulation), I can tell you there were a lot of changes between it and the Mac, and even between the original Apple Lisa and the Mac. A lot of conventions we associate with GUIs now are Apple’s own invention.

(And could we get over the one button mouse snarks already, people? 1997 called and it wants its lame joke back.)

Sure, you can take my Dell, after you pry my cold dead fingers off the mouse.

Let’s fight back for… uhm… Dell!

“I think Dell might just be better if you are someone like me who knows very little about computers and needs it to do things automatically for you. Any techi would probably prefer Apple.”

Wow. Have I just entered some weird mirror universe where up is down, black is white, etc.? This is the strangest statement I’ve seen in a while.

“Ugh, all you people saying that Apple “stole the GUI from Xerox” are morons perpetuating falsehoods. Yes, Steve saw something at Xerox that he liked, something that was going nowhere…”

Close…Actually, Apple *licensed* significant parts of the Xerox GUI from Xerox. Nothing was stolen…it was bought and payed for.

Three words:

One button mouse.

FTW!

Well, also mention that Steve works for apple for the annual salary of $1.00 lol, omgpwned again

Where are the Grateful Dead when you needed them…
If you took the $80k that it would cost to send your kid to college, put it into Apple stock four years ago…and they followed the Dead for those four years… The kid would be worth over $1,500,000 and never have to work again… Of course Rehab would cost you $28k a month now, but that would still be affordable with 1.5M in Apple stock…
Wish I had put more into Apple 6 years ago… It has doubled this year alone… I love the ride and I can see that its doing nothing but going up for the next several years.
One thing that bugs me.. my A/V conversion boxes do not work with Tiger. They work fine with system 9, but that does not do me much good with Intell macs… I have a lot of footage to convert to CD and DVD….

Maybe time to shutdown Dell and return money to shareholders… In every product class where they compete directly, Apple makes a superior product and offers superior support. Maybe time for Dell to cash out and learn how to golf.

Unfortunately, Michael Dell’s job as CEO is to increase shareholder value, not his own….

I am a certified MSFT engineer and would never own a PC… GO MAC!!! They are better in every way… plus with VMWARE you can run Outlook or Groove since MSFT won’t build them for the mac cuz then no one would need a PC!

Though Apple is a great company, and it clearly stands out for innovations, looking at purely the numbers- and say the next five years, sales of Dell and say the likes of HP are going to be much stronger in emerging markets like India, middle class China perhaps, Eastern Europe. For people who just want a simple PC, they are more likely to go with Dell or HP, rather than Apple, simply because of lower prices and compaitability with more softwares (without the fuss of virtualization). Apple has now started to seem a bit arrogant, they are selling music and video content at cheap bucks to sell their iPods and iMacs, not to mention the iPhone pricing fiasco of sorts, complete failure of Apple TV. If they continue in this path they are not far from being called Microsoft of yesteryears.

Apart from this, people have to understand is that even tough Microsoft may have built itself on marketing and other ways, Apple nearly killed itself- the infighting in Apple during the early 1990s, Jobs getiing outsed and so on. Though I own both Win Vista and Mac, Microsoft did what it had to and became a market leader whereas Apple faltered.

Well gee Ryan, tell me, which PC games CAN’T I run on a Mac?? Have you caught the fact that you can install Windows on any Intel Mac? (as virtualisation or dual-boot) And that it in fact runs BETTER that on a “normal” PC due to lightyears LESS guess-work as far as drivers etc. are concerned? (all needed drivers provided by Apple not 137 different companies that don’t know what the other 136 are doing!)

How many Mac-only games can YOU run? … none? Oops. I guess that means my Mac is the better gaming machine, no?

But yes, if that’s ALL you want to do all day is PLAY, then you can get a better PURE GAMING machine for Windows for cheaper. Just don’t expect to be able to do even the simplest A/V or rather multimedia chores on that same machine once you grow up and actually decide to do some worthwhile WORK.

As a side note to my earlier argument…people talk about windows being able to be installed on macs, but not vise versa, as if it’s a bad thing for Apple. HELLO, Apple is not stupid. They would lose so much money on their boxes if anyone could just buy OSX and install it in their homemade or PC box. Besides, does anyone have a clue how many pirated Windows copies are floating around? Try pirating Mac OSX…good luck. A very smart move for Apple.

To Ryan, about gaming…Macs simply outperform PC’s in every aspect, including gaming. Macs use much less processor power and memory to run the OS, but focuses it all on applications. So whatever it is you run on a Mac will run better than on a PC. Besides the raw facts, I’ve seen gaming on a Mac. It will blow you away.

Also, to doubters of Apple’s innovation…I can almost guarantee that in less than two years, we’ll see Microsoft’s failed attempt at a cell phone. And read Bruce Baird’s comment…it’s good.

Like I said before, I am completely unbiased. I just call it like I see it.

Ugh, all you people saying that Apple “stole the GUI from Xerox” are morons perpetuating falsehoods. Yes, Steve saw something at Xerox that he liked, something that was going nowhere…

When Apple released the GUI it had many of the Xerox PARC employees on staff. Anyone remember the Xerox Star 8010? Of course not… Apple has the vision to make it reality and people like Larry Tesler who worked for Xerox and then Apple helped make those visions a reality.

@ Papa-Raboon
Hi Papa, I should have clarified … I was referring mostly to the growth in China, emerging markets, etc. Thanks.

has anyone mentioned gaming?

i can’t say i’m an expert, but i didn’t think that macs could compete with the pc market when it comes to that kind of stuff.

i guess i’m just curious to see what the argument is.

>> Apple even dropped the word ‘computer’ from it’s title. <<

So did Dell. The company is just Dell, Inc.

“Palm/Handspring invented a never-existing-segment called ‘PDA’,created a brand new OS for that (which turned into business-class phone =phone+PDA).”

Actually, I think Apple beat palm to the punch on the PDA. Try “Apple Newton” in Wikpedia.

Folks who deny Apple it’s due on innovation are annoying. You can thank Apple for a lot of the things you take for granted- Windows, the mouse, Firewire to name a few. Thank Apple for the concept of seamless integration, and thank Apple for all the “next generation” smart phones coming out in the next year. Apple innovates, and more importantly drive innovation in the industry at large.

“2008 Apple revenues = almost 30 billion
2008 Dell revenues = almost 60 billion”

Well, try taking a look at profit. Different picture, eh? That’s because Apple makes a profit on the OS AND Apple makes a profit on the computer. Meanwhile, the Dells of the world are making generic boxes and cutting each others throats- because what males them special is the OS, not the box. It’s hard to make up for selling at a loss of close to it on volume.

Apple makes nice looking boxes, that’s true. But spec for spec, they are often cheaper than a comparable PC. Try pricing it out.

Years ago Apple made the mistake of thinking they could sell BMW’s to the masses. PC makers are now making the mistake that most people want YUGOs. People want something in the middle, - a Corolla. And that’s where Apple is right now. PC makers sucker people buy selling on price - you get what you pay for, but eventually PC makers suffer, because nobody wants to drive a Yugo. Nobody feels good when there computer is trash after 2 years.

love4world, that definitely sounds like it was your school system and not the Macs, as that sort of behaviour is exactly the reason why I switched to Mac - Windows does that sort of thing, and worse, all the time.

I have nothing against Apple. I’m just a poor college student so I bought a Dell because it was cheaper. Apple’s latest line of computers is extremely nice. However, I tend to shy away from Apple simply because my high school was all Apple computers, and they were constantly having problems. Trying to run a power point on an Apple once resulted in an entire presentation being deleted hours before it was due. However, I’m not sure if it was the fault of the Apple computers or just the stupidity of our school system. I do really like the Apple laptops I have seen. They are light weight, well built, and everyone who owns one seems to love it. My Dell laptop is huge and the CD drive already broke. However, I am one of the freaks who actually likes Windows Vista… I think Dell might just be better if you are someone like me who knows very little about computers and needs it to do things automatically for you. Any techi would probably prefer Apple. I really don’t understand all the drama… if someone is happy with the computer they’ve got, let them be happy. Good for them. I couldn’t care less what brand you have. I think there are a bit more important issues in this world to get so huffed up about.

Allright windows fanboys, I’m a little confused about the argument that you “can’t get work done” on a mac. Exactly what type of work are you talking about? I’d like a few examples of what you could do on a PC but not on a mac.

I’m just going to reiterate some of the comments here that actually made sense. And it’s stupid to argue Mac vs. Dell. Yeah, Dell may be the best PC producer, but let’s compare apples to apples (no pun intended). PC vs Mac.

Microsoft has never created anything stable…ever. The only reason my PC is somewhat stable is because I paid extra for all the best specs and I also had to delete all the startup programs and services as well as do some tweaking to the registry. Macs are completely stable out of the box, no tweaking necessary.

Windows XP is the most stable OS that Microsoft has, but it wasn’t until SP2 that they got it right. Mac had each OS right on the first try. You never need service packs to fix everything they couldn’t get right the first time. After Microsoft took 6 years to produce Vista, I expected them to have that right. But I come to find out that it is the most unstable so far. Their only attempt at stability and security just gets extremely annoying

And for the arguments of who is more innovative, just look at the facts. Any “great idea” that Microsoft had was something that Apple was doing first. I don’t need to say any more about that, just do some research.

And to the idiot that calls himself ‘The Raven’, you act as if you know more than all the professionals that “use Macs everyday to produce many of the products that you are buying and enjoying today”. They use Macs for a reason. I would hope that every professional out there is smart enough to use whatever performs the best. I know someone who runs Pro Tools on one of the cheapest Macs available and it can do anything that the most speced out PC can do. It just makes sense. You can’t expect an OS with the GUI over top of it to outperform a GUI that basically is the OS. Even when Macs had a far inferior processor to the Intel, they still outperformed the PC by far. When Mac singed with Intel, they completely blew the competition out of the water. The Mac OS is simply better designed and cleaner. Apple’s number one focus in design is to perform. The amazing graphics, usability and visual appeal are an added bonus. (something IBM obviously has no concept of) PC’s are designed to be user friendly, which they are not. They just make you want to shoot yourself.

I don’t claim to be any expert at all. I just call it how I see it. And I think it’s funny that it’s only the PC fans that can only say “you guys are all stupid” and back their arguments up with nonsense. Use some common sense and do some research, and maybe open your mind a little bit.

today,
Google + Apple = 336 B$
Microsoft+Dell = 342 B$
getting there…

Apple has built its products on image instead of substance. Apple will continue to do well on products that become status symbols (ipods, iphones, macbooks). But, I think they will have trouble on products that people like to be efficient and cheap (computers, printers, monitors).

you’re all biased

I have a Dell and a Zune. Have I got taste, or what?

The reason Apple’s stocks have tripled in the last few years is because it’s one of the few computer builders that actually innovate. Anyone can build a PC, load Windows, and put a name brand on it. Apple just took it to a whole different level. So far Apple has caught the complacent tech world off-guard every time.

Few companies innovate as much as Apple does, and it’s one of the only companies that can build-up hype and actually live up to it. It’s always some cool new phenonemon that’s at least a year a head of the competition.

If the trend keeps up, Apple will overtake Dell within 3 years.

Chris wrote: “I want an music player I but an Apple i-something , I want a computer I buy a DELL. I have bought multiple laptops for my kids at $500 each , would ahve cost me that much for one Macbook, and 5 times the cost of software.”

Ah, but Chris, that single Apple laptop that cost you $1000, and maybe 5% more for the software (if that, likely would have been the same) WOULD STILL BE RUNNING TODAY AT PEAK EFFICIENCY, while all of those Dell’s except maybe the last one you got yesterday are doorstops or in a landfill somewhere poisoning the envirnonment.
And for those who have written that it takes a PC to do “real work,” I beg to differ. I do everything on a Mac when I’m at home (I can’t help it that the people I work for can’t see past the initial investment), and it does what needs to be done, generally better and faster than my girlfriend’s 6 or 7 years newer PC (I run a B&W G3, 400mhz; she’s got an HP Pavilion, P3 or P4, with all the hiccups and limitations inherent in a ‘processor’ that’s really 8 to 24 486’s running in tandem).
Bill Gates got where he is through being incredibly lucky and incredibly crooked. He stole the base code for DOS from a real programmer, made a MINOR modification to it, then patented the entire thing as his own work before licensing it to IBM for their first-generation PC. He had his boys reverse-engineer Mac OS 7 to ‘create’ Windows (easy to do when they were writing software for the Mac and had all the technical specs they needed provided as part of Apple’s own developer kit), which runs as a shell on top of DOS (and you actually thought DOS went away with XP? HA!); and Vista IS a copy of the look (but they never have gotten the feel) of OS X. If there is any function Windows can do, Mac OS did it first, using the true industry standards, not the cluged mess intended to only work on Windows. PC hardware is now like that (USB and Firewire first appeared on Macs, NOT PCs; Gates had to give Apple $150 million so he could add USB and Firewire capability to Windows, figuring it wasn’t enough to keep them from going under, which proved to be totally wrong). Show me any genuine innovation in computing in the last 10 years, and I will show you the Mac it first appeared on, with Windows PCs picking it up sometimes 5 years later (and NOT because it wasn’t ready for real world use when Apple released it).
In other words, Macs are the REAL workhorses, the REAL PCs, and Gates has never had an original idea in his life!

Putting all numbers, charts, graphs etc. aside for just a moment, lets take a look at something elementary. Apple has something others do not. An ability to recognize and implement artistic design, creativity and user simplicity. All Apple products are beautiful, wonderful to hold, easy to use, appealing to all senses. They look great and feel great. That is important. In turn, this arises something in the user. Typical P.C box manufacturers still do not get it. You can even tell how much Apple puts into their products when you step into a store. Just look at the packaging alone on any computer. You feel the element of quality is present just in holding the darn box! Oh yeah. They also deliver what they promise. Great, reliable products. Imgaine that.

So many posts miss the essential truth: Dell is a computer company, and Apple is a technology company. Apple even dropped the word ‘computer’ from it’s title.

Apple’s superior interfaces have enabled it to dominate the music player market, crack the cell phone market, and move up to #3 in home computer sales in the U.S.

The argument that Macs don’t do more than cute movies and fluff is laughable. I’ve been running serious pro apps for years, and with a minumum of fuss. Support is excellent, especially with Applecare.

Yes, it’s true that PC and Microsoft control a huge chunk of the home PC market, but take a look at market trends. It’s no accident that Apple share has more than tripled recently.

Simple to operate does not mean that a Mac is a simple machine. Sounds like some of you PC users like your grapes sour.

I owned both macs and dell computers. Never had major problems with either.

One of Dell’s mistakes was outsourcing their support to India, something I don’t believe apple has done.

I have contacted dell support with some issues and the service was useless. At least when I had my apple serviced I could just walk it down to a local apple store. Customer service is poor with Dell and I believe that was one factor that resulted in their current standing. I felt that Dell was in big trouble when I saw their machines in Walmart. How cheap can you get?

I use both mac and pcs, but I favor my mac more. I like playing when I get home from work, and the last thing I want to do is log into another pc. And with iLife what else do you need?

Why do people always say that you can’t GTD with a Mac? I’ve been using Windows for year, I used to hate Mac’s (marketing and whatnot) - but then I got one. OS X is GREAT for work especially with VM ware… bah.

“because Mac OS X copied their GUI from UNIX.”

Too funny. GUI stands for “Graphical User Interface”. Do you mind sharing which UNIX Graphical User Interface Apple copied?

Some of the comments regarding Apple not being a productive computer, but a marketing gimmick is ridiculous. I use a PC at work, a new Mac at home. My new Mac meets all of my requirements to produce, is more fun, more reliable, and interacts better with peripheral devices. Too many close mind postings here from people who don’t know anything about Macs.

2008 Apple revenues = almost 30 billion
2008 Dell revenues = almost 60 billion

And Apples market is more that 2X Dell. The Ipod is hip, but it is building way too much hype.

I read everyone of the comments. Conclusion is that it appears to be the PC guy who feels the desire to knock Apple. Geesh, it is just another way to compute. I use both, prefer one over the other, but now can run both on one machine. Apple has a very small market share. PC people should not give Apple a second thought. If a PC is your cup of tea, buy one or keep buying one. It is no big deal. I drive a Subaru, most don’t, big deal.

All you Mac people that are on this thread ripping Dell or MS please get a life. Please go back to using your Mac and stop trying to convince people that your Mac is better than a PC. All you people that are on this thread ripping Apple or the Mac get a like as well. If you don’t like Macs dont use them. It’s really that simple.

Each of these technologies has their advantages and disadvantages BUT……THEY ARE JUST COMPUTERS! These arguments about why MS is evil or why Mac users are fools is childish and and a waste of brain power. Come to think of it…so is this comment so I’m going to stop typi….

First thought: The two Steves (Jobs & Wozniak) started Apple in a garage. Dell started in a dorm room.

What’s your point? Every business starts from an idea. With or without funding.

Second: Cost. Apple builds everything into their computers when it ships. To bring a comparable Dell to market costs almost $200 more.

Third: Software. A little research will prove that Apple has thousands more software titles than Windows. (Yeah, I didn’t believe it either until I checked it out for myself).

Fourth: Enterprise level. Apple is already there. They’ve been in the Enterprise since the 80’s. Expect to see more.

Fifth: Momentum is everything. Apple has it. Dell, et al and MS have lost it.

Between my co-IT here at work and myself we have probably switched near 100 people from PC to Mac. Some at our suggestion, some coming in and demanding it as soon as their Dell’s time was up, totally on their own. Many are work computers, some are home.

Regardless, not one person has come back and said they regretted switching. Not one. I get a lot of “I LOVE my new computer comments.”

Macs are not just for design anymore as a commenter suggested. Nor are they more expensive–Apple just pre loads what you need instead of you having to buy it after the fact. Macs last longer too. We get an average of 4 to 6 years out of every Mac we’ve bought since the early 1990’s. We have no problem running Apple’s OSX upgrades on 4 year old computers. Even have some 2000 computers running Tiger quite well. Try running Vista on a 2000 Dell. HA! Yeah, right.
You get what you pay for as my dad always said.
No you can’t blame Dell for Microsoft’s crummy operating systems and compromises, but you can blame them for butt-ugly boxes.
Steve’s CEO salary at Apple is $1.00. I bet Michael Dells has more than 2 zero’s after his 1.
Microsoft dominates because Jobs was fired and Apple was nearly run into the ground by Scully and the rest years in the mid 1990’s, allowing PC’s to grow. Apple dropped the ball.
Apple is where it is because of INNOVATION, CUTTING EDGE DESIGN and QUALITY of product–software or hardware. Period.
To the guy who bought his kid a cheap Dell–Isn’t that child abuse? : )

wow… this is a response to Nishant of Toronto…

First of all, no one is stupid because of what type of computer they use. Second, Microsoft has a monopoly in the OS market because of marketing and because there isn’t real strong anti-trust law in the US, not because they have a superior product… I don’t hate Microsoft… I don’t use their products when I can help it…

Secondly, OS X didn’t copy their GUI from Unix. The first GUIs were developed in UNIX, however, Apple pioneered the integrated graphical OS with the Macintosh (the interface was, i admit, stolen from Xerox-PARC)… by integrated, I mean, the OS was the GUI… it wasn’t a layer running on top… Microsoft didn’t truly have this until Windows 2000 and XP… and they’ve only begun to approach OS X functionality with Vista… but it ain’t there yet…

Thirdly, my first computer was a Mac Classic II, running Mac System 7.5, 4MB RAM and a 40MB hard drive… and it was freakin awesome… i LOVED it…

Finally, I don’t have any problem with Bill Gates or Michael Dell or anyone else making more money than I do… Steve Jobs makes lots more than I do and I don’t have a problem with him, the Steves (Jobs and Woz) are my heros!

Present a cogent argument next time, ok?

Matt
mattythestranger.wordpress.com

You guys are stupid.

Nice start! First you insult others, then go on to prove that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Apple is proprietary and not only make their own hardware, but also OS.

Yes, Apple’s OS is only licensed for use on Apple hardware, but the operating system itself is open source (Darwin).

Dell relies on Microsoft OS. How can you blame Dell for not being innovative when it’s Microsoft with the OS. Hardware wise, anything an Apple does, Dell can do too.

Except that they don’t. They just sell boring boxes with Intel motherboards. No innovation. Just shove systems out the door as fast as as cheaply as possible.

On top of that, last time I checked, Microsoft OWNS the marketshare for OSes by a LARGE LARGE percentage. There’s reason for that. And it’s not because Microsoft had a monopoly on PCs.

Right. They don’t make PCs. They make OSs. And they have a monopoly on desktop OSs. They achieved that though the use of unscrupulous/preditory business practices, as everyone knows who followed any of the anti-trust cases against them. It had nothing to do with quality, as anyone who has to support Windows systems knows.

Apple has been around for just as long as IBM has.

I’m guessing that you are under 18 years old, since you obviously grew up in a Windows world, without any knowledge of what came before. IBM was founded in 1889 as “Computing Tabulating Recording Corporation”, long before modern computers were invented. It changed its name to IBM in 1924. Apple was founded in 1977.

You all think Apple is the god’s gift to computing when it was really only Mac OS X that changed Apple’s future. Any of you guys ever use Mac 9.x?

Yes.

Or like it?

At the time, yes. Compared with Windows 95, it was much better.

You all hate Microsoft for one reason: because it made more money than you, your kids, or your kids kids will ever make combined. Microsoft did more good for the computer world than it did bad, by far.

Wrong again. Some of us don’t care for Microsoft’s products because they have a long history of being poorly designed, and often quite unstable. If all you have ever used is Windows, then you are used to it, and probably just accept it. That is the biggest crime of all. Microsoft has lowered the world’s expectations on what computers are capable of. Too many people think viruses, spyware, and frequent crashes are part of the normal, everyday computing experience. It doesn’t have to be that way.

Notice how there’s a windows virutal box for Mac but no Mac virtual box for windows?

That’s because Apple’s software licensing agreement currently prohibits it.

WINDOWS OWNS THE MARKET. People need windows more than people need macs.

Sure, just like people need Hyundais more than they need BMWs or Mercedes. If you don’t have to settle for a Hyundai, why would you? There are better choices out there.

And for those of you who think Vista sucks, you’re way off. With a little tweaking, I have Vista running smoothly, and I love the GUI.

Of course you love the GUI. It’s Microsoft’s best adaptation of Mac OS X Tiger’s interface yet.

And don’t tell me the GUI was copied off of apple, because Mac OS X copied their GUI from UNIX.

Sigh. You really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do you? Unix (it’s not an acronym, by the way) is an operating system developed originally in the 1970s, before there were “GUIs.” Mac OS X is Apple’s version of the Darwin port of FreeBSD Unix. I think what you are referring to is the original Macintosh Finder concepts of files as objects you could drag and drop, text you could cut and paste and the mouse as an input device. Apple took those ideas they saw during a technology demo at Xerox PARC, modified them, and turned them into a usable commercial product. Go look at the history of the graphical user interface on Wikipedia.org. It covers the history pretty well, including Windows.

Suck it up and live with it.

We don’t have to. That’s what the Mac is all about. I don’t use Windows anymore, and I don’t miss it one bit. If you are happy with Dell boxes and Windows, that’s great for you.

God bless Microsoft.

Amen! They need all the help they can get.

P.S. It’s funny to think too that Dell was created by a kid in college, and now he’s worth more than you.

It’s funny that you are so insecure about your use of Dell and Microsoft products that you have to act that this.

“With a little tweaking, I have Vista running smoothly”

ROTFL

Said as if it is perfectly normal to have to tweak something brand-new to get it to run smoothly. Hilarious.

Imagine this kind of thinking with any other product. “Honey, I love the fact that I only needed to adjust the alignment and inflate the tires to get our new Honda running smoothly”

From someone that was there at the beginning in Austin, Dell would have been another me-two beige box PC company or long gone into bankruptcy if it hadn’t been for his Dad’s $500,000 loan or for friends at the FCC that helped out against local PC computer competitors.

“Look at Dell and Gates…they are one trick ponies…both of whom took from others their success…Dell’s one trick was the production process of the “box” and Gates…was the licensing of his Windows over DOS OS. (windows of course copied from AAPLE)”

How quickly people forget. Apple didn’t invent the GUI (or the mouse), Xerox-PARC did. Jobs was taken on a tour of Xerox-PARC and saw several things in development (GUI, mouse, laser printing, etc.). Amazingly, a short time later the first Mac came out incorporating those developments. Apple didn’t invent every technology, the company’s sycophants just act like they did.

I love how everyone is defending Dell and the EconoBox PC. It’s great! I’m just going to comment on random comments I saw throughout the thread.

First of all, if anyone actually took the time to do “research” you’d see that comparing a similarly spec’d Mac with a Dell, Sony, Fujitsu, etc, costs nearly the exact SAME price, give or take a few bucks. But, since people see a laptop for $1099 from Apple and some p.o.s. from Sony for $499 it’s a lose lose. Consumers don’t have the mind power to actually research anything and pay attention to what they’re buying. They only see price.

And, Dell is in the hardware business more than anything else. Apple does both hardware and software and does them both very, very well. Dell can’t even make a PC look decent, it does look like a prop from a b-movie.

To the people that STILL think that you get no work done on a Mac, you obviously have never used one or have one and never really tried. So, tell me how much time you waste doing virus scans, adware scans, etc? How much time do you wonder why your Outlook has froze your whole computer while it tries to get mail? How much time do you waste while your computer just sits there, eventually ending with a BSOD? Yeah, none of that happens with Macs. You can be more productive with a Mac because you don’t have to worry about that stuff. You turn on, start the program and go. Sorry, but if you can’t use Excel on Mac (or OpenOffice Calc) you just suck anyway and probably aren’t all that productive in the first place. They’re the same program. And, if you think that you can’t use a Mac because the program you’re looking for isn’t available, you’re just lazy and possibly dumb. There are plenty of equal or better alternatives to anything on Windows.

“Thank god for Windows.” Uh huh. Thank god for a stifling of any innovation if it threatened them at all. I’ll only use 1 example here - IE6 came out in 2000-2001, IE7 came out in 2006. Why so long for such an ‘innovative’ company? Because they had no threats they had no incentive. Only because Firefox came along and started taking market share did Beastmaster and his minions do anything. They still didn’t advance anything, just copied others. Again. Oh, I guess I’ll throw another one out there, took 6 years for the failure that is Vista, Mac OS X had 3 different and completely new versions in that time. Very, very innovative.

You go ahead and keep on enjoying the dark ages back there with your cmd lines, registry tweaks, and Norton Anti-Virus, I’ll just go ahead and keep moving along with my articles, spreadsheets, videos, photography, and programming. Have fun!

@ Nischant

You’re a blabbering fool.

First, IBM was founded in 1889. Apple, 1976.

Second, I don’t know what a “virtual box” is, but you’re right that you can run XP as a virtual OS in MacOS. Why can’t you run MacOS virtually in Windows? (you can, illegally, with some hacking) Because Apple doesn’t WANT to. See, MS had no choice in the matter — they sell their OS freely, for any machine. Apple does NOT sell their OS freely, they sell it only for Apple hardware.

I’m not even going to start on Vista. If you like it - great. The experts don’t.

(and frankly, who cares about the GUI? MS promised us a journaling file system w/ Vista.. instead we got DRM and the 3D GUI..)

OS X didn’t copy a GUI from UNIX because UNIX is a CLI-based OS. You can add additional GUI software. Some of this software, particularly that aimed at Linux (which is NOT UNIX), was likely inspired by MacOS. NOT the other way around. (see Gnome circa 2001, when OS X was first released)

Vista’s GUI was inspired then by both MacOS and the Linux-GUI aftermath.

Just to respond to: Nishant’s post. He’s simply wrong on the following: he claims there’s no virtual machine for running Mac on Windows. This is incorrect, he’s apparently never heard of Basilisk, Executor, Fusion PC, SoftMac 2000, vMac or Worm (that’s 7!). Next, I used Mac OS 6-9 and loved them. I’ve always had both Macs and PC, but would have chosen the comperable Mac at any time in history. If he’s comparing OS 9 to say Vista, then maybe he has a point. He also assumes owning the largest marketshare makes means your better, if so he deserves the Walmart world he so craves. I any event, check your facts because you’re entrie post is simple wrong.

Nishant, are you like 12 years old?

Dell gives the people what they want. Jobs gives the people what they dream of.

Dell still sells more computers than Apple, so they have that going for them.

“The Apple commercials say it perfectly. If you want to create nice little slide-shows, and homemade videos, and scrapbooks, and have nice little gimmicks, get a mac. If you actually want to get some work done get a pc. I have had two pcs and a mac for three years, and the only thing the mac is good for is playing on the internet.”

Hahaha! Tell that to all the professional audio engineers, film makers, publishers and artists that use Macs everyday to produce many of the products that you are buying and enjoying today.

I considered buying Dell for a while, but amid reviews of bad customer service, plus the fact that Windows security still isn’t the greatest, I switched to a MacBook Pro. I don’t blame Microsoft for the switch, although I don’t want the hassle of configuring all my security programs. So far, I’ve been pretty happy with the purchase, no stability issues or anything like that. I wish I could say the same about my friends on Vista. It took several hours for us to configure their computers for a proper LAN party.

I worked for Dell for 6 years as an Account Manager. Dell is a marketing company. They take best of breed ideas & products from others and package them to the public. Big business still loves Dell, by the way. Apple is different. I see them as an innovator AND a marketing company.

It’s always so interesting nowadays to read the ongoing debate amongst computer users. Most of the Mac users I know, are pretty darn familiar with Wintel machines, I can’t say the same thing about the Wintel groupies. As for market share, Macs have a much larger share in small businesses and households than they do overall. The reason for this is choice. Rarely did compies offer a choice between the two platforms, as their ingrained proprietary software proliferated from POS systems to server clients. The vast majority of home PC users can’t identify programs that they require that don’t run on Macs.

The next generation of Microsoft’s Office for the Mac will once again have features not available to Windows users. As you might not know, Microsoft first developed word processing and spreadsheet programs for the Mac, and the Mac Business unit is tremendously profitable.

Testing out this preconceived notion that Macs are more expensive. Try pricing out a new Gateway One versus an iMac. Check out the processor specs, the 19″ display versus the 20″ and 24″ available on the iMac. Sure, you can hack away at a $500 PC if you must, but you certainly can’t complain about lack of software on the Mac, because you couldn’t be using very much as it is on the PC.

As for Vista, Mac market share has increased every month since it was launched. Not very impressive.

To Nishant, Toronto, Ontario, Canada:

So basically the gist of your rant is that you believe that people don’t like Microsoft just because they made a lot of money? Let’s clear this up: you wanna make money, fine. But they made money from being bullies. They weren’t innovative in the computer industry, they were shrewd businessmen. They got in on the ground floor of a new industry and created a monopoly and have worked hard to maintain it. They made it so people don’t understand what an operating system is. People just know that if they buy a comptuer, it’s going to proabably have Windows installed. And that’s not because Microsoft wants to be innovators in the computer industry, it’s just so they can maintain their monopoly.

To clarify the comment you made:
“On top of that, last time I checked, Microsoft OWNS the marketshare for OSes by a LARGE LARGE percentage. There’s reason for that. And it’s not because Microsoft had a monopoly on PCs.”
– Yes, it is because Microsoft has a monopoly on PCs. They’ve had it for 20 years.

Secondly, yes, Microsoft did deveolp Windows with inspiration from the Mac OS. And yes, Apple did have inspiration for their OS, but it wasn’t Unix, it was from Xerox when they worked in conjunction with Xerox’s PARC facility. The Mac OS prior to OS X had nothing to do with Unix. Now, with OS X, the OS’s kernel is called Darwin, which is based on BSD Unix.

If you’re going to lambaste, get your facts straight.

I just want to clarify: I’m not defending Apple. I don’t think Apple is any better than Microsft. They are both greedy, control-hungry companies who will do anything for a buck, even stick it to their own customers.

People don’t “need” Windows. They don’t “need” Macs either. People need computers that work for them and do what they need without chains and without control. That’s why I don’t use either one. I don’t care how much money Microsoft has made, nor Apple. I don’t sit at home stewing with my hatred and jelousy toward them and their money. I dispise the bully tactics they use to keep themselves in market and that’s why I don’t support either one.

Does the net worth values maybe reflect the actual figures that they are getting paid? Because in that sense, maybe Apple cares more for their consumers that they are putting more revenue into R&D than Dell. Let’s just face it, Apple’s industrial design is ingenious. A better looking product that functions well is better than a product that only does its job. Even though Michael Dell is worth more than Steve Jobs, that extra money that he’s not receiving is going back into the company and to its shareholders.

Michael Dell coped Chinese entrepreneurial practices: when you ‘got no money’ you carry little inventory and what you have is supplied on credit. Overhead is minimal and you watch expenses very carefully! Gain credibility, momentum, and grow by being the LOWEST COST PROVIDER. No doubt, Dell did great until his success went to his head, with service and innovation down the toilet. I HAD A Dell for 3 years before I switched. Now, getting ready for a Mac Powerbook…never again any,MSF product or ’service’ - an oxymoron for Gates/Balmer.

You guys are stupid.

Apple is proprietary and not only make their own hardware, but also OS.

Dell relies on Microsoft OS. How can you blame Dell for not being innovative when it’s Microsoft with the OS. Hardware wise, anything an Apple does, Dell can do too.

On top of that, last time I checked, Microsoft OWNS the marketshare for OSes by a LARGE LARGE percentage. There’s reason for that. And it’s not because Microsoft had a monopoly on PCs.

Apple has been around for just as long as IBM has. You all think Apple is the god’s gift to computing when it was really only Mac OS X that changed Apple’s future. Any of you guys ever use Mac 9.x? Or like it? Didn’t think so.

You all hate Microsoft for one reason: because it made more money than you, your kids, or your kids kids will ever make combined. Microsoft did more good for the computer world than it did bad, by far.

And the fact of the matter is, 85% of you reading this are prbbly using a Microsoft OS. And only ppl that post are ppl that whine about M$ and PCs.

Notice how there’s a windows virutal box for Mac but no Mac virtual box for windows? WINDOWS OWNS THE MARKET. People need windows more than people need macs.

And for those of you who think Vista sucks, you’re way off. With a little tweaking, I have Vista running smoothly, and I love the GUI.

And don’t tell me the GUI was copied off of apple, because Mac OS X copied their GUI from UNIX.

Suck it up and live with it. God bless Microsoft.

P.S. It’s funny to think too that Dell was created by a kid in college, and now he’s worth more than you. You want to make a difference? Start your own computer company. We’ll see how far you get.

is the lull in July 03 due to the Steve “dude, you’re getting a dell” guy, pot incident?

Dell and Apple are not really competiters anymore. Its like saying Toyota competes with John Deere. Different markets, different products. I want an music player I but an Apple i-something , I want a computer I buy a DELL. I have bought multiple laptops for my kids at $500 each , would ahve cost me that much for one Macbook, and 5 times the cost of software.

for the most part, if you buy a mac for any reason other than that it is better at graphic editing, you’re falling into the trap of a marketing ploy. you want to be “different” so you buy a mac, but really, you’re the same as everyone else out there trying to be “different”. sounds trendy. Let’s consider the facts. Macs cost more than Dells or any other standard consumer system line, and they are less functional. sure they are “easy to use” but guess what, so is a calculator. mac has cornered a reasonably large group of people and duped them into brand loyalty for no valid reason, only for projected appearances. if you want a computer, buy a PC, and if you want ultimate control and flexability in a computer, install linux rather than windows or macOS. in short, people who buy macs for non professional reasons are the same people who’s vcrs were flashing 12:00 a decade ago. real computer users know how to operate their system on a level above the power button.

I’m sorry but comparing GM to Apple is a stretch. Comparing Tesla Motors to Apple would be better !!

The Apple commercials say it perfectly. If you want to create nice little slide-shows, and homemade videos, and scrapbooks, and have nice little gimmicks, get a mac. If you actually want to get some work done get a pc. I have had two pcs and a mac for three years, and the only thing the mac is good for is playing on the internet. This chart is skewed because of the ipod and now the iphone. I give mac props for those, but their computers suck. People only get them because they think it makes them look cool and trendy.

While at first it appears Apple makes a great product, as they have expanded their customer service AND the parts they use in their products has really gone down hill. My house is full of Apple Items which constantly fail because of subpar parts, of which Apple will do nothing about. As each item fails for the second/third time, I am replacing these with companies who actually offer good products and warranty and know what customer service is. Watch the trend, Apple’s share will start falling.

Innovation and business.

Both the companies stand like textbooks for the above stated words.
The more they flourish , newer products we get and it feels good saying that listening to an ipod and typing it on a dell right from my home in India.

Chao!

Techdivine

“But keep your heads on, Microsoft’s Office suite stills kills anything Apple has and will continue to keep afloat the Non-Mac produces.”

You’ve obviously never used OpenOffice. Works better than the bloated memory hog that is Micro$oft Office, and is free.

I’ve had two IBM’s and two Dell’s. I am fed up with Dell’s pathetic customer service reps who can’t speak English, have no knowledge, and aren’t authorized to do anything more than read a piece of paper.

I bought my first mac last week, an iMAC. I’ll never look back. Bill Gates and Michael Dell are two greedy egotistical people who have worthless products. Bye Bye Dell and Microsoft.

Apple and Steve Jobs would have been long gone years ago if it weren’t for the iPod.

Dell vs. Apple, what an amazing tale. The real lesson here for both investors and managers is that new product changes everythng. Dell is stagnant and Apple is inventive, creative, imaginative. When Michael Dell himself said shut down Apple, the creative folks at Apple were probably in their cubilces that very moment working to create wonder. Look around, what do we see in 2007 that may offer a comparison? Could it be that GM is about to take back market share and make the mighty, can-do-no-wrong, Toyota pale? Could it be that all the new product GM is coming out with in the next 36 monts makes GM king again? I for one am betting yes. From the CTS to the new Camaro, to the Enclave, to the Acadia, the GM Divisions are about to do the unthinkable: WIN. GM may be the new Apple.

Dell? I thought Microsoft owned them….

first apple can run windows so there is no reason to ever get a dell for the home market

enterprise level sure, get a dell

macs are less expensive when compared to dell machines that have same features.

dell has no taste they make everything look like a bad prop from the sci-fi channell.

when i am on my macbook at starbucks it attracts chicks.

dells plugs for the laptops are neanderthal age sized blocks that are about the size of a shoe.

dell service is in india, mac is in north america and they are apple employees, not outsourced scabs.

Since Michael Dell has 3 times the amount of money Steve Jobs does and his company is in trouble (or some people claim) hows about helping Dell out with his own money? Put his massive wealth back into the company instead of lining his pockets.

@ Hamp
Apple has always been an international company for as far as I can remember.
I live in England and have been buying Apple Macs exclusively from local dealers for thirteen years.

@David Sachdev

Apple pretty much invented the Notebook Docking station years ago with the Powerbook Duo.

They There’s no real need now with Apple’s new Macbooks and Macbook Pros as there is a monitor port on the notebook itself and plenty of USB ports. You also get Bluetooth with every portable Mac now so bluetooth keyboards and Mice can be used.

I really can’t see a need other than that for a docking station. If there is then please enlighten me.

I admire Steve Jobs very much, but to the person who stated that Steve Jobs invented PIXAR — wrong!

PIXAR evolved from a computer graphics division that was part of a motion picture company started by another brilliant gentleman, a man for whom I worked for several years… George Lucas.

Pixar was originally founded as the Graphics Group — one third of the Computer Division of Lucasfilm and was launched in 1979.

George eventually sold the Graphics Group division to Steve who, with the help of employee-turned-partner, John Lasseter, molded PIXAR into the high profile company we all know today.

PUHLEASE. Michael Dell will steal a baby and give it to anyone that writes an article linking him with Steve Jobs. His sole claim to fame and money is boxing other companies parts and software into a box, using as few humans as possible.

Could not have happened to a nicer guy. Michael Dell the conservative muckraker now has a company in trouble.

I remember his disparaging comments in 1997 and thought that he said those comments because he wanted Apple out of the way. Well Mr. Dell, they are right in your face and with the lack of innovation and creativity that Dell has shown in 10 years, it was all but inevitable.

The future will only show more of how stupid Dell’s remarks were and how lucky he has been with making boxes for cheap-just like Gateway and Acer and other all but dead companies.

Perhaps Apple should buy Dell-Just Kidding…..!

I’ve got a Dell computer and an iPod and am very pleased with both. There’s room for both in this world.

And yes, net worth shouldn’t be a measuring stick. But all the corporate icons listed have some philanthropic uses for their wealth. Even Dell tops the list from time to time. You never hear CEO John Chambers from Cisco raising issues with his $1 salary, but you’ll find him actively encouraging corporate philanthropy.
Jobs is good, no mistake about that, but there are apparently better people with better moral character out there.

That growth from Apple looks great, but I’m not so sure about them long-term.

Way too volatile for my tastes…

The world wouldn’t be what it is today, were it not for companies like Apple, Dell *and* Microsoft. A Yin-Yang situation, if you will.

But get your facts straight. Steve Jobs is not an inventor, but a marketing guru, and a very good manager with lots of great people working for him. Don’t get him confused with the other Steve, Wozniak who created the first machines that put Apple on the map. Jobs doesn’t invent, but finds people to make good products with a certain look and feel. Jobs didn’t create Pixar, they were around long before he took notice of them. Jobs is a successful manager of people and ideas. Don’t get it confused, and get your facts straight.

hey joe rigg, market share is meaningless. It doesn’t represent anything tangible.

Michael Dell was in the right place at the right time. Dell does not innovate at all, they just buy stuff from other people and resell it, that’s always been their mode of operation since it was started in his dorm room. There are a zillion other companies that do the same thing, Dell just managed to do it a little better than the others, which is all it takes when you’re scraping the bottom of the market.

Hey John from Santa Barbara, nice incoherent rant there. You make it sound like Apple did the smart strategic thing by avoiding the lawsuits. Oh, and good luck with your investments there.

Angelo makes an excellent point that others have missed.

Nice that Michael has 3X as much in the bank as Steve. Hey Michael, how much did you give your employees last year in bonuses? NONE? That’s OK, you are doing fine, who needs them anyway?

I disagree with joe rigg about market share being useful for number crunching; Dell sales PCs, Apple sales Macs.

Are they both computers? Yes. But Dell sales a lot of computers across different markets.

Apple, on the other hand, has a niche market that captilizes greatly on its niche. It makes more money per computer than Dell does on most of their lines, which is why they are so profitable.

So even if Apple has a lower market share, which I believe it does, it would be able to pull out more net profit with lower shipments.

Whether or not its close to those numbers right now, I couldn’t tell you.

But keep that in mind.

I think the main problem was all the fawning over Mike Dell as some super genius & as if because he made millions/billions, we should fawn over him. It’s great that he built a billion dollar business out of his dorm room but all he is a super sales guy - again, that’s fine but we need to separate guys who are solid business guys and others like Steve Jobs … like when CES invited him or Bill Gates - they are both super smart in their narrow niches - outside of their specialized innovations, they are like Mariano Rivera - you wouldn’t ask him to start a game would you?

Both companies have their very own markets. And both of them are doing great jobs in their particular markets. I don’t see the point in this graph.

That graph is so misleading it’s not even funny. Dell has given a 30,000% gain in shareholder value since its inception. On the flip side apple has only brought 3,000%. I mean, appl is a niche player only. It’s cute, but that’s all.

Can’t deny Apple’s run-up is due to freakishly fast innovation that seems to deliver looks and functionality. But keep your heads on, Microsoft’s Office suite stills kills anything Apple has and will continue to keep afloat the Non-Mac produces. Apple also targets the upper end buyers and doesn’t care about 3/4 of the market. (Which is fine) Just keep in mind, unless Apple continues to expand into non-core businesses, there is only so many buyers that can afford their price points. If Dell wises up and crafts a trendy box to hold their computer systems coupled with the new revisions in the MS 2007 software (looks like Mac software), Dell stands to benefit…

What is quite evident and cannot be overcome by either Micheal Dell or Bill Gates is that Jobs is an innovator and creator…it is his being…

Look at Dell and Gates…they are one trick ponies…both of whom took from others their success…Dell’s one trick was the production process of the “box” and Gates…was the licensing of his Windows over DOS OS. (windows of course copied from AAPLE)

Their money and success was keeping with those successes…unfortunately for both…regardless of the money they throw at their employees and those they attempt to buy…they have and will continue to be failures in their attempts to “think outside the box” and create…WHY…because they and those they surround themselves with are dim-witted compared to JOBS and lack the creative genius, pride and fortitude of Steve Jobs. You cannot make an artist out of rocks.

The flatline until mid-04 is a result of the bad economy/internet bubble. Just before the flatline you can see a sharp increase in apple’s value.

Dell more than any lowered the price of PCs they have cheapened them. That means made them a commodity with a consumer that lacks loyalty to any brand. Apple has created a “lifestyle” product, everything is sold with the lifestyle tag line these days. Dell’s formula for success was domed to flat line when there was no further way to discount without affecting the bottom line.

Comparing a company in its prime against a company that isn’t just doesn’t make sense. Dell never was in a one-on-one match-up against Apple. They were both competing in a market with multitudinous other players. In fact, given the loyalty of Apple’s overall fan base, there’s an argument to be made that Dell was competing more against companies like HP, Gateway, Sony, Toshiba, Asus, Fujitsu…

Moreover, anyone who wants to take the opportunity to espouse the virtues of Apple should be free to do so. Just realize that it’s merely an opinion and not a fact. One man’s inspired, elegant, and simple system is another one’s incompatible, white-colored, proprietary nightmare. I’ll applaud Apple on laptops, but good luck getting OS X to work if you want to build your own desktop. Some people just want to be able to get into the guts of their computers and make it fit them.

Both Jobs and Dell have secured their places in history and personal finance. Both were pioneers in specific areas. Kudos to both, and the devil with the armchair quarterbacks who comfortably look back with the benefit of hindsight and cast criticisms.

So Dell made a comment years ago, who cares? He managed to come back, run a very major PC company and is very well off. Not too bad as far as I can see….

Speaking of flubs, remember Jobs and NeXT? Jobs is a consummate marketer and on the whole does recognize opportunity and has made the right plays, he was not an inventor as far as I have read, for Apple - that honor would go to Wozniak (at first, then others)

Apple might have bet Dell in innovation but there is no way they can beat IBM. IBM has been in innovation starting from mainframes and PCs to PET scans. They have Nobel prizes. Apple has got a long way to go for that.

Dell never created “technology” of its own. They essentially took what IBM, Intel and Microsoft created and applied a very efficient build and sell model to it. Could PCs be where they are without Dell? May be it is time they shook hands with Apple and do the same with Macs. Win-win?

Don’t bash Michael Dell because off that comment. I guess many of us would give then a similar response. Remember that Apple was en pretty bad shape. I love Apple products and admire Steve Jobs for the revival of his company. But I’m also a consumer and I don’t understand all this Mac users that take very personal any criticism towards Apple Inc. We are not militants, are we?

Recently in the market. Loved the new Apple desk tops, elegent, simple wiring - essentially a portable stood on end. I understand the architecture of the operating system is superior. However, couldn’t rationalize twice the price over a Dell. Perhaps Apple will be successful enough to get the price down. John, Raleigh, North Carolina

I’ve used several Dells and they all crashed or forze up on a regular basis. I have used Macs and kow many others who do as well and Apple is a hands down better company with products that are far superior to anything from Dell. As for Steve vs Mike? Both very successful in their own right but when it comes to being a VISIOANRY, Steve is the real, true visionary. No comparison. Mike knows how to manufacture and market cheap PC’s.

After owning 2 Dells which both locked up irreparably, I’ll never own a Dell again. The service was non-existent. Right now I’m on Gateway because the software I have to use for work won’t run on Apple, but if I had a choice, I’d go with Apple

When your business model is more and cheaper, the only place you can go is more and cheaper. This model sounds like a race to the bottom.

Why do people continue to critize the other side just because they favor/ use one product line? There are reasons why both men are worth billions of dollars. They’ve made great contribution to the tech industry, and to the economy in their own rights.

DELL made alot people rich in the 90s and now Apple is doing the same in the past few years. Don’t count anyone of them out, and enjoy their products.

What would I do with Dell? I’d shut it down and sell the remaining assets to HP.

hey yucatann.com; armstong wasnt put on the moon, it was a conspiracy…it was fabricated by the government

I call my self a techno-savvy (not geek though) but I could never understand the recent frenzy behind Apple. Just a few years back Apple was in dumps. No one cared,even Mac overs were skeptical. And suddenly a mp3 player came (nothing new…just a instrument to play music) and suddenly Apple turned into an “Inventor” company. Neither MP3 nor MP3-players were apple’s brain-child. They did a great packing of something which was already existing and selling it at exorbitant price…it was an instant hit. Most people I know who used the 1st generation ipods say its an over-priced mp3 player with not-so-classy sound. so what’s turned Apple around?? imacs changed their platform to unix-based. Unix is again not apple’s brain-child but Apple is “inventor” again. Then came iPhone, wowed for its touch-screen (palm’s brain child centuries ago)…and Apple is “inventor” again. (Treos did 90% of the things iphone are wowed now for…except for huge screen and the browser). All I see that Apple has done some great “re-packaging” of existing things and turned into a sleek looking exorbitantly priced item with fancy marketing…Apple stocks is now at 1:46 P/E? what am i missing???
Is steve really smart ‘Inventor’ or just a smart ‘Marketing’ guy.
When Dell came out with its business model it was unique and it changed PC markets for ever. It’s not great now but at least it was a pioneer. Window are not great but Office-suite was a pioneer and invented the word “killer-apps” in the PC world. First time in the history PC was a necessity and usable for common people. Palm/Handspring invented a never-existing-segment called ‘PDA’,created a brand new OS for that (which turned into business-class phone =phone+PDA).
What did Apple invent??? What did apple do for common people??? I can’t remember anything except for the over-wowed ’sleek’ looking gizmos which pretty much does the same things like others in the market (just a tad better).

ask micheal dell the same question today…he would shut dell down,,,if he was a true visionary

“People can slam Michael all they like, but he brought affordable, custom configured, reliable PCs to the masses.” — I couldn’t pass this one up - it was just too funny - Sorry! At the place I work, the last 50 Dell’s that were purchased had a 100% failure rate. Our IT department continues to recommend Dell equipment, as it provides them with job security. Their words, not mine, I am not making this up.

another helpful tidbit to see graphed along side this one would be a measure of relative market share for each. Particularly over the last several years.

It’s like Leonardo De Vinci being compared to Mao Zedong. Money is a dead end road. Having a progressive impact on the development of man kind? That is what put Armstrong on the moon. I recommend vision and innovation apposed to a little red book.