Antitrust: Apple accused of bullying Microsoft

I find this case to have some merit within it. The whole case with Windows V. Microsoft had to do primary, as the rivals where concerned, the monopoly over the Internet Explorer and allowing it, on the Windows computer, to have a unfair advantage. Basically they are comparing that to the ipod not allowing it to have Windows format. You could plainly see, at least, some kind of relationship between them. Overall, it comes down to Windows wanting some justice for themselves.

PC = Mac = Linux/Unix = computer = computer = computer = …

Get it?

Man, that’s dirty. Who cares if WMA isn’t supported?

What if I came up with my own format for audio compression (that’s all it is) and a million people started using it. Would I sue Apple for not supporting it? The answer is no. Do you know why? Because I’m not a dick.

Better to spend money on a desirable operating system (Vista is not), I say, than on a lawsuit that’ll just make you look worse than you already do.

why is this idiot wasting time trying to call Apple to the mat for not allowing WMA to work with iTunes or iPods. Do people even use WMA anymore? What is it and why would you use it? why would someone be so old school and stubborn to sue Apple over this? this is absolutely nothing but another anti-Apple publicity stunt. Maybe someone in the Zune team created the stunt to try to get someone in the world to not buy an iPod or iPhone. Good luck on that one.

Correction - you can play games on a mac - if you’re running windows on it bwuahahahah
Posted By Dave,

Why is it that the same wankers who deride the Mac as a “toy” unsuitable for business are the first to get all hot and bothered about games?

FRICKIN’ WAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!! Apple came up with iTunes and it came up with the iPod too, so I’ll use the same logic that microsoft defenders use, “If someone doesn’t want it, they can choose something else.” Microsoft is involved here in the same scenario as the pot calling the kettle black…nothing more, nothing less.

LOL!! Betamax and LaserDisc. DOS and Win3.1. Remember PC-DOS before MS-DOS? Or those 3.1″ floppy its own bootloader to play dig-dug? Damn I’m officially old now.

Jan Swesey you are the most uninformed person on this board. Only an narrow minded person believes he or she fits into any one political party.

As for the Chain and India kicking the US’s butt… sure ok, but wait, wait then why are all those products made in Chain and India designed and sold in the U.S. Oh no it wouldn’t be because US companies are looking to maximize profit for their share holders by paying some uneducated 3rd world person 50 cents an hour would it? I’ll give you a clue it’s not because their just so much more capable than US workers.

Oh and how about Billy Boy. I actually liked Bill Clinton but he gets way way too to much credit for the economy in the 90s.
First one of the main reasons the economy was soooo good in the 90s was the Y2K scare. Companies were so scared they were going to lose all there data do to some computer disaster they over spent the budgets just to get all their computers to Y2K complaint. This also led to one of the main reasons spending declined so mush after Y2K.
Second look at all the companies that were cooking their books to push their stock prices higher, which allowed the companies to barrow more money because of the stock price. Once the Y2K spending dried up and the stock prices pulled back companies started not being able to pay the bills and poof the bubble burst.
Finally as a supposed investor you should know that the fed has million times more influence on the overall economy then presidential policies.

Oh but wait I need to comment on the ignorant oil statement too. Oil is inflated because inverters are betting people can’t and won’t break their addiction to SUVs and Trucks and oil supplies will be low in the future and because of people like you their probably right. Oh and don’t forget the weak dollar which affects oil prices as well, but your an investor and you should know this.

john T Yucca Valley what games do you play exactly??? Considering 95% of the pc games are written for the directX API which is an M$ product that you can only get on Windows…

I’m not an M$ supporter but I don’t like misinformation either.

ok, Dave from minneapolis, microsoft has been making word and excel for macs since before Windows ever came out! i have my 1.0 floppys for my mac plus still. Office wasn’t around then, it was called multiworks, if i recall correctly, and was bundled with all macs back then. Gates worked for Apple then, dude! As for not playing games, i do that on my mac. as for not running wma, i play them in my itunes. as for wmp, there’s an app called win4mac that allows it all to be played on macs. as for a monopoly, this is not one. apple allows windows to be used on it’s macs, and all their software as well. i’m at a loss as to why this suit is even being brought.

OK people, first there is alot of misinformation here. Apple has designed its hardware to work well with its software. Was iTunes made to compliment and sell iPods? Of course! Anything else would be an absurdity. Is this “locking people into iTunes”? Absolutely not. You can go to many of the other tunes sites for music. What do you think Microsoft and their PlayForSure schtick was? What do you think the entire WMA / WMV ordeal is? That’s “locking” people into their proprietary technology.
Also, the iPod and iTunes combo plays with the most open of music types MP3. Not only that, but iTunes can play with Ogg as well with a free plugin.
That automatically negates the monopoly aspect of this case and all of the others.
Asking Apple to support and pay for a competitor’s technology just because everyone feels they’re entitled to have and do whatever they want is just plain stupid. If you don’t want to play by the rules, don’t purchase the product.

BTW Mac, Windows, UNIX and LINUX user here…

I think many of you forget that Apple didn’t all of a sudden close its system. IT WAS ALWAYS CLOSED to what they deemed fair use along with the labels. The consumers(YOU) decided they LIKED what Apple were doing and got them to where they are today. Nothing wrong with Monopolies or near Monopolies, which I wouldn’t count this one as since there is so much competition out there with other players and purchase options. If there were a small handful of places where you could buy music and only a few players, then you can talk. Otherwise clamp your mouth.

All the criticisms of Apple above are wonderful reasons to not buy their products. Alternatives are available to all of Apple’s music products. If you want to play WMA, don’t buy an ipod.

Except, of course, this isn’t about logic or law, this is about a legal system and a public, where any lawsuit can be brought and press releases issued, and it gets treated like there’s an actual case there.

In fact, lawsuits against Apple barely qualify as news any more. Apple has made a lot of money, it only costs paper to sue them, and there’s always the chance of getting a crazy ruling from a judge.

However, the HEADLINE was my best laugh of the day!

There is no conflict between public interest and the iPod/iTunes/AAC-FairPlay system. This is an extremnely clear example of a vendor selling a product and a service specifically taylored to support each other. The WMA fomat is well supported by Apple in that the Windows version of iTunes will convert unprotected (unlocked) WMA files into a format iTunes and iPod like. The fact that Apple could build in native support for WMA (and any number of other audio fomats) has nothing to do with legal and monopoly issues. Apple simply doesn’t want to spend the money for licenses and MORE money to address support issues for something that will not make them any money nor obviuosly improve their business position.

Lets face it, the only reason now to go with WMA is similar to the reasons people used for BetaMax in the 1970’s or large format LaserDisc in the 1980’s People go with what they like and deal with the drawbacks of their decisions. People who use AAC have to live with the limitations of their choice (such as not being able to play on SanDisk players) but such is their choice. People who followed Microsoft’s lead and used WMA have to live with their choice also.

The fact that the iPod and iTunes is extremely popular doesn’t really enter into it. The product and service are private enterprise at its most basic. Good product + good support business + good service = success. This has been done NOT by driving others out of the market with leverage of other business segments. In the 1990’s Microsoft used its Operating System market share to force some software vendors out of business by selling it’s competing software at a loss (or giving it away for free) knowing it had incomming capital from the OS profits.

This has not been something Apple could do since they didn’t have any sort of command of any particular industry with guarentees of income. They have simply sold a good thing for a profit and chosen not to cooperate with commpetitors. This is both legal and ethical.

I didn’t see Microsoft offer to make any IBM OS/2 software work on Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 back in the 90’s (yes, some of us still remmeber it). IBM had to rewrite everything they had in a format that Microsoft approved, not the other way around.

Anyway, who cares much anyway? Anyone who feels left out, find a support group and deal with it. It’s what Mac user groups have been doing for 20 years. At least WMA format users have a tool to convert whatever they want to iPod use-able format. Apple didn’t have to provide that but they did, for free!!

Feel free to write me back. VicNaz1@aol.com. I consult on things like this all over the world.

Thanks,
Victor Nazarian

My 2 cents. As previously stated, this is a frivolous and ridiculous lawsuit. Apple does support unprotected WMA files, iTunes just converts them to mp3. I personally don’t like WMA, usually bigger file size - I just let iTunes convert them to mp3. How does Apple have a monopoly on downloadable media? A monopoly is “exclusive possession or control” - how does Apple have this when others have similar services and there are numerous players that support WMA and video. If they don’t like iTunes/Apple use any one of the other media services: Amazon, Urge (for Zune), Rhapsody, Napster, and others. Along with Amazon’s Unbox video download service, it’s impossible for Apple to have a monopoly.

These folks are trouble makers who don’t like Apple. They can simply buy a SanDisk, Zune, Creative, Sony, or Dell media player. If these people own Zunes, why do they want to buy from iTunes? Buy from Urge and shut up. The ONLY reason MSFT made their 2nd gen Zune play AAC files is an attempt to get iPod users to buy from Urge. If the Zune was huge seller their is no way MSFT would open to AAC. So, they are angry Apple owns majority share of media downloads, would they be happy if MSFT or Amazon had Apple’s nubers? And if yes, why would that make it any better, trust me, MSFT and Amazon would run over a bag of kittens to trade places with Apple’s iTunes and iPod. Don’t be angry that Apple beat everyone to the market and was smart enough to match their player with their own media store, it’s a successful and brilliant business strategy. That’s why MSFT copied them and Sony & Napster tried, but failed. Also don’t be angry Jobs made better deals with Hollywood heads and beat everyone else to it. I support open competition, may be the best service win, as Apple is, for now.

When Microsoft was found guilty of predation, it was because it was found to be a predatory monopoly. Predatory monopolies are illegal in the US. Had MS operated as a non-redatory monopoly, the judge would not have ruled against it, and all would be well. Apple may or may not be a monopoly, but it surely is not a predatory monopoly. If it’s a monopoly, it achieved that state legally, that is, by not using predation against the competition.

For all of you who confuse predation — hence legality — with non-predation — illegality– pease, unconfuse yourselves so that you can sound rational in your arguments.

Eric:
I love this. As for the research thing. Here goes.
I just googled Market Cap Apple and guess what I got?
157.64 billion dollars. For Dells Market cap I get 49.43 billion, oh gee that is even BETTER then triple! I think that Dell should take his own advise and sell his company and give the money back to the share holders.
See you have access to the internet and you still can’t check or verify a claim. DUH.

For the Ass Kicking that we are getting from the Chinese and the Indians. Go to Wall Mart and look at all the “made in” stickers and see how long it takes you to find something that is NOT made in china. Did some one ask about OUT SOURCING, they sure sound like Ahpoo from the Simpsons to me? When was the last time you called Dell tech support?
Read the book “The World is Flat” and then come back and try to plead ignorance.

And as for the rest of it. Well just listen to your selves.
And why yes I am a Democrat, Lets see, when the Last Democratic President left office the US was in pretty good shape. With a Budget surplus and all. Yes I know that he could not keep his pants on but that did not kill anyone. Now for this time around. What have the Republicans given us? We are well on our way to spending a trillion Dollars(of not more) on wars and destruction mayhem and death and for what? Because our president is stuffing oil money in his back pocket? With less then 8 years of Bush and we are well on our way to a recession. Do you even care that the price is oil is up to 100 dollars a barrel? Do you even care what the stock market is doing. Do you even know why?
My comments were in response to the quality of the discussion on this page and the lack of knowledge on the part of the participants.
Thanks for proving my points.
And I would consider it an insult to be called or assumed to be a Republican.

What does this have to do with Apple? Frivolous Law suit, and an ignorant tempest in a teapot.
As they say, “don’t try to teach a pig to dance, it is a waste of time and it only annoys the pig”.

The bar for proving an anti-trust lawsuit is pretty high. Take a look at what it took to get MS.

Does Apple have a large market share here? Yes, but not the nearly 100% that MS had in PC operating systems. Is Apple’s music business a monopoly? I would argue “no” because, as many have pointed out, there are many, many ways to get your digital music. Downloaded, DRM music is a small percentage of purchased music. (In fact, not too long ago a music exec used the fact that the average iPod had only 20 iTunes purchased songs on it as evidence that we are all stealing music!)

But let’s say Apple has a monopoly. The next question is “are the using their position to *illegally* limit the ability of others to compete?”

Let’s take a look at what got MS into trouble… They told PC vendors that if they wanted to sell any computers with Windows, they had to sell ALL of their computers with Windows. If a customer only wanted Linux, too bad. This limited the hardware makers ability to compete in the marketpace.

Has Apple told any portable media device makers that they couldn’t sell Fairplay enabled devices unless ALL of their devices supported Fairplay? No, because they don’t license Fairplay. You may not like the fact, but that doesn’t make it illegal.

Has Apple forced any online music seller to only sell music using Fairplay? No.

Has Apple done anything to force anyone to adopt their standards, other than by simply having a popular device (ie, it’s the consumer’s choices that may be forcing things, not Apple).

And it all boils down to that. You may not like Apple’s business strategy. You may be envious of their success. They may even have a monopoly in terms of market share (but I’d disagree there, too). But not liking something and being envious are not grounds for a lawsuit.

Check out the relationship of apple and microsoft with canyon software . How did windows media player — WMA develop? Mostly from apple code. lawsuits were settled ten years ago. c liu

I think plaintiffs would have a stronger case if Apple didn’t have to pay Microsoft to license WMA. Never heard of a judge ordering any defendant to become a competitor’s customer.

“I find this discussion thread very distressing. I can’t really believe how much misinformation is out there and how truly ignorant you people all are (MS fanboys suck mostly). As has been stated in the article MS is not bringing any lawsuit. Apple is not a Classic monopoly. If this comment process as a way of talking back to articles is anything, it show you all how mostly MORONIC and IMBECILIC my fellow Americans really are. NO WONDER WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING OUR ASSES KICKED BY BOTH THE CHINESE AND THE EAST INDIANS! Not only can’t you MS fanboy suck ups, read, you can’t reason and you can’t research or remember. We all know the law suit has no basis. As a long time Mac user, I should be used to this mindless crap. By the way when did APPLES market cap triple Dells?”

I don’t think Apple tripled anyones market cap dude?? and what is this talk about the chinese and east indians?? So that is all because we don’t use Apple or because we are all brainwashed besides you. Last I checked the innovation for many many things is still right here in the States my friend. Apple is so locked into itself its crazy. I bet most people don’t know that windows servers have many options preloaded to help co-exist with Unix, Netware, Linux, Apple, and SNA(mainframes). Microsoft is alot different than what most people think these days and they do work with others, Novell for example.

so jan swesey you don’t think having a closed system from start to finish is not monopolistic? I’m not saying monopoly, Apple is not a monopoly, however their business model/tactics are very monopolistic. Apple tries to corner the market in everything that they make (think Mac OS only runs on Mac hardware even though mac hardware is just a PC with a TPM now). That’s monopolistic by definition. Can you swap ur iPod for a Zune? No Apple won’t let you. That’s monopolistic. Can you swap a Zune with wma files for an iPod? Nope, Apple won’t let you do that either, but Apple’s the market leader, so they don’t have to do that, they can freeze out the closest composition(which is far but there) from M$, Napster, and Rhapsody by not supporting WMA. Is it smart business tactics? Yes, but it’s also monopolistic.

Again I like Apple and own Apple stock. I hope Apple wins the lawsuit, it’s good for my stock, but can I say Apple has clean business tactics? Heck no. just because u like something it doesn’t make it right and it doesn’t make something else wrong.

Wow Jan Swesey, way to make no point at all except that you are a Lefty Dem. Congrats calling 95% of earth “ignorant”, and also way to have terrible grammar doing it. I like how you call everyone ignorant and that they didn’t do their research and that there is misinformation blah blah blah, but yet you come back with NOTHING to back it up. No research, no good arguments, you just point the finger with the crowd and yell Rabble, Rabble Rabble! Classic Dem. We’ll see if CNN even lets me post this, being the Left Wing news channel.

Thank you Mike from Detroit for clearing some things up for the Crapple lovers, so I didn’t have to.

Jason f / Tallahassee - You obviously have the apple blinders on. I would like to have you name one thing I said that isn’t a fact.

The only one that could have been misreprented was when I said.

“You can’t play games on a mac - awesome”

Correction - you can play games on a mac - if you’re running windows on it bwuahahahah

I’m not a MS fanboy, because there are plenty of things they could be doing better at *cough* Vista *cough* (hopefully that is better after SP1) BUT I certainly do hate apple for so many reasons.

If you want further proof of how crooked apple is maybe you should read this article followed by the next one.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/27/apple_imac_display_problems_reported/

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/12/19/apple_display_update/

After you read that you have to ask yourself - Restocking fee? On a $2500 machine? For a defect? Why would you Restock it? So you can re-sell it and make more money off the next-restock? The 2nd article is classic though

Waaaaaaaaaaah. Someone said something bad about Apple. Waaaaaaaaaaah. Someone wrote something bad about Steve Jobs. Waaaaaaaah Waaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaa. Daddy, buy me 5 more iPhones and a Starbucks Frappacino so I can feel better.

I find this discussion thread very distressing. I can’t really believe how much misinformation is out there and how truly ignorant you people all are (MS fanboys suck mostly). As has been stated in the article MS is not bringing any lawsuit. Apple is not a Classic monopoly. If this comment process as a way of talking back to articles is anything, it show you all how mostly MORONIC and IMBECILIC my fellow Americans really are. NO WONDER WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING OUR ASSES KICKED BY BOTH THE CHINESE AND THE EAST INDIANS! Not only can’t you MS fanboy suck ups, read, you can’t reason and you can’t research or remember. We all know the law suit has no basis. As a long time Mac user, I should be used to this mindless crap. By the way when did APPLES market cap triple Dells?

Any one who doesn’t think Apple’s business model isn’t monopolistic is a moron. Seriously, I don’t think there is another company who has come up with more proprietary hardware and software (Sony would be a close second).

I love Apple, their stock alone has made me a ton of money, but lets be honest Apple doesn’t play nice with ANYONE especially Micro Shaft.

“Ok. As a Mac user, I want a class action suit against Microsoft because I cannot watch movies nor buy music in their formats. Case in point, I have to use a PeeCee to watch movies on NetFlix which uses M$ tech. The absurdity: I bet I could run windows in a VM on my Mac and run a screen capture utility within the Mac to snag the video and audio from Windows.

I can’t see my suit or the one against Apple lasting long in court.”

So should I sue Apple for not letting me run Mac OS in a VM can capture their files, music, and video???

Man Maccie thinking is just funny. They complain about having to run Win OS in a Mac to get M$ content but are fine with Apple not letting a Win OS run a Mac OS in a VM to get Mac content. Yeah that’s equal sure…

The company the practices unfair or un-openess is Apple not MS. U can’t run Mac OS on non Mac hardware, you can’t play iTunes music on other MP3 players, you can’t play quicktime movies on other video players. Now take MS, I can put windows on any x86 x64 PC, I can load music on the Zune from any music service, and I can play WMA/WMV on any music player minus Apple’s crap because of APPLE.

“Ok. As a Mac user, I want a class action suit against Microsoft because I cannot watch movies nor buy music in their formats. Case in point, I have to use a PeeCee to watch movies on NetFlix which uses M$ tech. The absurdity: I bet I could run windows in a VM on my Mac and run a screen capture utility within the Mac to snag the video and audio from Windows.

I can’t see my suit or the one against Apple lasting long in court.”

Again classic Mac head thinking not knowing. Apple is the one not letting you play M$ music and video not M$. I don’t like M$ either but I hate Mac heads (not Apple just Mac heads). Most are just ignorant as evidence by the quoted post.

“Why don’t you also complain that Microsoft doesn’t support it competitor’s formats? That would give you some air of fairness rather than coming off as the Microsoft shills that you are.”

Why don’t you look this stuff up BEFORE commenting. M$ does support competitor’s for music (MP3/4, AAC, many others), video (Divx, MPEG, etc…) they would support quicktime to if apple would license it to them, documents, you name it. I’m not an M$ supporter but this is classic Mac head thinking and not knowing.

For:
Dave, Minneapolis MN : January 4, 2008 11:30 am,

Wow. After re-reading your ranting post, I see now that you are cleverly supporting Apple, since your post is filled with such obvious misperceptions and misstatements you surely don’t expect anyone with half a brain to take you seriously, right? Clever indeed.

Please go to this web page to understand what monopoly is before making comments

http://www.linfo.org/monopoly.html

To all the Apple bashers who think iTunes is a monopoly comparable to Windows, get this into your brainwashed heads:

iTunes is not developed by Microsoft (who owns 95% of the computer market) and it doesn’t come bundled with Windows.

Windows users are free to use Zunes and the software that Microsoft bundles with Windows (or any of the multitude of other media software exclusively made for Windows). But, much to Microsoft’s chagrin, Windows users go out of their way to download iTunes instead.

Only Microsoft cares that iTunes doesn’t support WMV. You’re complaining only proves that you condone Microsoft’s monopoly at the competitor’s expense. It’s Netscape all over again, just in ’social’ disguise this time.

Why don’t you also complain that Microsoft doesn’t support it competitor’s formats? That would give you some air of fairness rather than coming off as the Microsoft shills that you are.

Just another small dog lawsuit aimed at Apple, hoping to get some settlement $$$. Nothing to see here, move along.

My new HDTV will not play my favorite radio station, can I sue LG?

Bully = a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker.

Now, maybe the ignorant illiterate writers who misuse words and bastardize the english language, can explain how ANYONE can “bully” the diminishing Microsoft giant…

Ok. As a Mac user, I want a class action suit against Microsoft because I cannot watch movies nor buy music in their formats. Case in point, I have to use a PeeCee to watch movies on NetFlix which uses M$ tech. The absurdity: I bet I could run windows in a VM on my Mac and run a screen capture utility within the Mac to snag the video and audio from Windows.

I can’t see my suit or the one against Apple lasting long in court.

Has anyone forgotten the fact that you can decrypt the DRM simply by burning an audio cd and reimporting it?

Is it more work? Probably, but not so much more that it’s unbearable.

My question why did she buy an ipod? No one made her and last I checked, mp3 players aren’t a necessity (like utilities & banking). So, how pray tell should this be considered an monopoly case?

It’s like deciding to purchase a diesel fueled vehicle and then suing because you can’t use regular gas.

With frivolous cases like these, it makes me embarrassed to be an American.

lol

For Dave from Montreal: They are not talking about encryption or rights. Which you are correct in that is driven from the record companies. The issue in this suit is about each company’s file formats, Apple’s aac vs. Microsoft’s WMA. What it does is force consumers to choose a music service and device based on file format instead of being able to play ALL music on ANY player.

What I can’t understand for the life of me is: Why can’t Macheadz remember MSFT saving AAPL from the brink of insolvency back in ‘97???
Posted By Shaun, Toronto, Ontario : January 4, 2008 9:56 am

Because that statement is a load of BS. Microsoft paid off Apple to head off further lawsuits over the blatant theft of Apple code and designs to build the Windows OS. Apple was a what? a multi-billion dollar company with 1.2 billion in CASH! And that 0.15 billion was a “bailout”? Spare me.

Anyone who thinks APple is a monopoly in music downloads or in media players does not understand what the word “monopoly” means. It’s that simple.

If Apple’s Itunes is the industry leader, why doesn’t MSFT license protected AAC from Apple?

Oh, wait, that would kill MSFT’s other propriety formats that have failed, like Plays4Sure and their new Zune one that doesn’t work anywhere else.

As an Apple user, I don’t want the ability to use MSFT media on my Mac. It’s the reason why I own a Mac. Apple is doing the right thing because it understands Mac users.

Look, if the world wants a standard to evolve, the courts aren’t going to be able to settle it. Either the US Congress has to pass a law, like the French government did, or the industry has to agree.

Truthfully, its the dumb music companies that are ruining it for everyone. They should just get rid of encryption and then the end users wont be bothered with all the intervening technology that’s necessary to secure the content…the stuff we’re all complaining about.

Why doesn’t the music industry create a standard and license it to MSFT and Apple?

Figures, Stacie Somers is an ambulance chaser!

This ambulance chaser obviously has too much time on her hands (and knee’s too).
I personally think the sound quality offered in the iTunes store is not good which is why I buy from Amazon, Beatport, etc.

Back to the point, you’ll always have someone, in this case an ambulance chaser, out there trying to make a fast buck.

Should I file a class action lawsuit because my DVD drive doesn’t support all of the DVD standards that exist today?

Should I sue Ford because I can’t put a Chevy transmission in my car?

Monopoly abuse means restriction in consumer choice. If music is exclusively available on iTunes Store and in no alternative format, then there’s a problem. However, I postulate that all of the music on the iTunes store is available through alternate channels–retail, other online music stores etc. Additionally, there are other devices available on the market that perform the same function as an iPod and use the more widely available online stores that support WMA.

Apple’s position in the market is not due to monopolistic abuse but rather consumer choice. There are products that are available that use similar and differing technology. It proves consumers with choice, and the consumer has responded by selecting Apple hardware and using Apple’s online store. The consumer has the option to purchase a competing piece of hardware that works with far more online stores than the iPod. There is no restriction of consumer choice. The consumer knows what formats the iPod and competing players work with, this isn’t a mystery.

If you want an iPod, you can only use iTunes to purchase DRM music. If you don’t like this option, you can choose an alternate music player that supports all of the other stores.

Just because my VHS player doesn’t support BetaMax and vice versa doesn’t mean I can or should be able to force one or the other to support the alternative.

FINALLY! Apple is getting sued, that’s the best news I have heard all day!

Apple hasn’t been innovative on anything in a lonnnnng time. The only thing they have invented is ways to screw customers out of more money.

Lets see

Macs - Can’t play video games - awesome

Had Crappy processors so they finally claled on Intel to make chips and boards for them

Couldn’t come up with a good office like product, so they had MS make Office for the mac

You want to talk about proprietary lets see.

Itunes - the only way you can really get music onto your iPod. If you want to install it, you also have to install Quicktime. Why would I ever want quicktime? My nano broke after 1 year, great product. I have a zune now.

Let me run down what is wrong with my Nano that was remidied by the Zune
- A million scratches on the nano, 0 on the zune, both in cases
- Couldn’t have the nano charging on a pc and listen to it at the same time (needed at work)
- No Radio
- No Video
- No wireless sharing (yes, you can get around the 3day 3play thing on Zune if you know what you’re doing)
- Broke after 1 year
- Has no equalizer settings
- Zune has a better screen than Ipod
- Ipod never put tracks on the player in track order even though all my songs are tagged
- Couldn’t set a background with the Nano
- Nano had 4gb vs 30 on Zune for $40 more
- Ipod is very expensive and proprietary with accessories, and old accessories magically don’t work with newer iPods

Zune is a million times better than the ipod for all these reasons. Then Apple came along and stole a lot of the good things about the Zune for their latest iPod, way to go!

Apple TV - what a pile of garbage. Why pay $399 to play computer videos on your TV? You can go to radio shack and hook up you PC with a chord for about $3. Not only do they charge you $399, but of course it hooks up to their proprietary Itunes to get videos and you’re only able to watch them at really crappy resolutions.

As mentioned by a previous commenter - MS OS works on Apple, but Apple won’t make their OS on MS systems.

Apple comes out with a new shinier OS that does mostly the same stuff every year and charges their fanboys for it every time.

iPhone - Had no good applications of its own until 3rd party people made some and then Apple took them away with an “update” which made everyone really angry, good job!

When was the last time you were in Best Buy and saw apple hardware on the shelves so you can customize it? Thats right, you haven’t, You can’t build your own Mac, because Apple is a proprietary machine! I could make a 10x more powerful system that could play any video game out there maxed out for half the price of a new mac.

Want service on a mac? You’re pretty much screwed unless you send it to apple and get totally overcharged to have something that you were already overcharged to buy, fixed.

Apple bends over the consumer so bad its ridiculous, but the fanboys have their blinders on, and always will

“Regarding the support for similar formats, does anyone want to guess how many formats the Zune would support if the iPod wasn’t dominant? For Apple to support protected WMA, then it would have to support the myriad license terms that protected WMA allows. It’s in everybody’s best to kill off protected WMA now!”

We have some real tech illiterate people here. WMA just like AAC can be protected or unprotected. Many stores sell UNPROTECTED WMA just like Apple sells UNPROTECTED AAC.

While you can convert WMA to MP3/4 and (insert format here) it’s a pain in the butt. Personally I think both M$ and Apple should drop there formats and just stick to MP3, it would make life a lot simpler.

“I hope MS wins this lawsuit, and that Apple is forced to open up the music to as many formats as exit today”

M$ is not the one suing Apple. Learn to read people, learn to read.

Here’s a fine example of why I think the U.S. (my country) should adopt the “English Rule” with regards to law suits. Basically, it says that the loser pays his and the other party’s attorney’s fees. This would go a long way in minimizing such ridiculous law suits! All other tort reform should be shelved.

Bill Richardson in ‘08!

PLEASE READ!!! MICROSOFT IS NOT THE ONE SUING APPLE!!!

Wasn’t Steve Jobs the one suggesting we get rid of encrypted music files??? Therefore how can it be claimed that they are trying to lock people in… it may be claimed that record cies are trying this but not Apple. If it went the way Steve wants you could buy a tune off iTunes and play it on any player. You cal already buy music off Amazon and play it on an iPod from iTunes itself (the Amazon software deposits your song into iTunes).

Regarding the support for similar formats, does anyone want to guess how many formats the Zune would support if the iPod wasn’t dominant? For Apple to support protected WMA, then it would have to support the myriad license terms that protected WMA allows. It’s in everybody’s best to kill off protected WMA now!

What Bugs the Heck out of me is that a Lawyer is bringing this suit on. Do you think that the Public interest is at heart? HA! My bet is that it is to fill the Law Firms pockets, now that Apple has something good a lawsuit is a easy to make money. The public gets poor quality again and pennies if you can provide a dated sales reciept, and proof of music downloaded (legally of course) and so forth… Hope this gets dumped and the People if they deem it necessary bring suit!!

This is just silly. Apple does not make the only digital audio/video player in existence, there are thousands of choices for the general public to choose from. No single person, or groups people, are forced to use an iPod. Apple does not force anyone to purchase their products. If you do not like the closed systems of iPod and the iTunes software then please by all means necessary purchase something different. That’s how consumers force companies to change their policies and practices, not by litigation.

The iPod and the iTunes Store have been quite a successful business venture for Apple when many people in the tech industry said the iPod would fail. It has changed the tech and digital content industry considerably, and for the better in my opinion. If Apple dominates this area it has been by delivering a superior product and service. If something better comes along from some other business and/or person, than they will probably enjoy the rewards of their hard work, and rightly so.

Apple got it right, others didn’t, stop whining about it….you have choices, make one.

Two things its not illegal in the US to be a monopoly if you became one legally. As far as I can tell if Apple has a monopoly in selling music (which I doubt) its earned it legally.

Secondly MS did not save Apple from insolvency in ‘97, they paid a $150 million to settle a lawsuit with Apple, in addition to agreeing to producing Office for another 5 years. Apple had something like $5 billion in cash at the time and were not even close to becoming insolvent.

@ Eric Cincinnati, OH
So you prefer to be strapped to WMA and its flavor of DRM rather than itunes? That’s your preference not any less of a hassle stop spreading FUD.

It’s ABOUT TIME!!!

Question is, does APPL have a monopoly on the online Music market?……Worth taking a closer look, at least. I for one know that It’s weird that you should need addiional sofware to manage files on your iPod ( Just a Har Drive) to counter act the path that APPL wishes you to follow, in order to order buyand play music from outside the APPLE network. Just because Microsoft was guilty does not make APPLE exempt from similair charges……Go get em..Stacie Somers

Anyone want to join me in a class action suit against Microsoft?? I want to sue them for making inferior, poorly coded, and virus ridden products that cost us more money than what we purchased them for. Oh, and by the way, the Zune is HORRIBLE!!!!!!

At least Apple takes the time to make quality products. Microsoft lost their way a LONG time ago.

Let’s see who support what:

Apple iPod -
Audio formats supported: AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), Protected AAC (from iTunes Store), MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Audible (formats 2, 3, and 4), Apple Lossless, WAV, and AIFF

User-configurable maximum volume limit

Video
H.264 video, up to 1.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Low-Complexity version of the H.264 Baseline Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; H.264 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Baseline Profile up to Level 3.0 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats

Microsoft Zune 2.0 -
AUDIO SUPPORT- Windows Media® Audio Standard[3] (WMA) (.wma): Up to 320 Kbps; constant bit rate (CBR) and variable bit rate (VBR) up to 48-kHz sample rate. WMA Pro 2-channel up to 384 Kbps; CBR and VBR up to 48-kHz

WMA Lossless

Advanced Audio Coding (AAC) (.mp4, .m4a, .m4b, .mov) - .m4a and .m4b files without FairPlay DRM up to 320 Kbps; CBR and VBR up to 48-kHz

MP3 (.mp3) – Up to 320 Kbps; CBR and VBR up to 48-kHz

PICTURE SUPPORT

JPEG – (.jpg)

VIDEO SUPPORT

Windows Media Video (WMV) (.wmv) – Main and Simple Profile, CBR or VBR, up to 3.0 Mbps peak video bit rate; 720 pixels x 480 pixels up to 30 frames per second (or 720 pixels x 576 pixels up to 25 frames per second). Zune software will transcode HD WMV files at device sync

MPEG-4 (MP4/M4V) (.mp4) Part 2 video[4] – Simple Profile up to 2.5 Mbps peak video bit rate; 720 pixels x 480 pixels up to 30 frames per second (or 720 pixels x 576 pixels up to 25 frames per second). Zune software will transcode HD MPEG-4 files at device sync

H.264 video[4] – Baseline Profile up to 2.5 Mbps peak video bit rate; 720 pixels x 480 pixels up to 30 frames per second (or 720 pixels x 576 pixels up to 25 frames per second). Zune software will transcode HD H.264 files at device sync

DVR-MS[5] – Zune software will transcode at time of sync

From the looks of it, with the exception of the DRM’ed files, they pretty much play the same formats.

Dear -D

Angry much?

At first the headline of the article cracked me up. But this is serious stuff. The iPod/iPhone/iTunes is far too deliberately restrictive in file types. Personally I don’t care about WMA, but Apple has been holding off on FLAC support for years, which forces people to convert to Apple Lossless format–a real pain. I hope MS wins this lawsuit, and that Apple is forced to open up the music to as many formats as exit today.

yes WMP plays MP4s. It would play ACC if Apple would let them.

I really don’t have any loyalties to M$ or Apple but it’s nice to see Apple getting hit for doing the same things M$ was doing in the past. Now only if they could get an Anti-trust going for Mac OS being tied to only Apple hardware i’d be happy. I want mac OS not apple’s “PC” hardware.

I hope W grabs his plastic six shooters, puts on his daddy’s cowboy boots, and marches out to Redmond and tells those boys to clear some brush and stop all these frivolous lawsuits.

Can Someone represent me in my law suit against this lady and her stupid law suit? Every time one of these idiots comes out of the woodwork my stock takes a hit!! She has caused me undue stress. Any takers?

iTunes will also import and convert WMA files to a format iTunes can use. So it’s not like you’re completely shut out if you have tracks only on WMA.

What I can’t understand for the life of me is: Why can’t Macheadz remember MSFT saving AAPL from the brink of insolvency back in ‘97???
I know MS did this to ‘keep’ their competition alive (thus avoiding a monopoly & subsequent headaches) but the point remains that if it wasn’t for that $$, AAPL may not be around today.
AAPL has it’s strengths, MS has theirs- having used both systems, I like AAPL useability, but cannot/will not give up my PC.
They’re BOTH great companies with great OS’s!!! (regardless of ANYONE’S opinion)

lmao…since cnn won’t post my last comment, probably because the moderator is pro apple, i’ll post this comment….

MS is NOT suing in this case you brain dead, can’t read for crap retards….

READ THE ARTICLE IN FULL, NOT JUST THE WORDS YOU WANT TO SEE…

is there really this many idiots that browse cnn.com???

i can’t read for crap and even i know that MS isn’t suing…how?? BECAUSE THE ARTICLE EXPRESSLY STATES THE LITIGANT IS A SINGLE CONSUMER.

Microsoft controls the personal computer market by copying Apple ideas and then bullying other technology companies, unfair marketing practices, litigation and generally throwing a lot of money into maintaining that control by whatever means necessary.

Apple controls the the media player market by providing a superior product.

Time will tell whether the market or the lawyers will dominate. I have a pc and a Mac - the lawyers won that battle and the consumers lost. I also have an iPod and an mp3 player - Apple rules.

I personally think Apple is a very innovative company, and that their products are designed and work well. That being said, they do hold a virtual monopoly on the online music and hand-held player markets and whether intentional or not can flex their market share muscles. Microsoft did this intentionally; Apple perhaps, perhaps not. But legally Apple cannot do this intentionally or unintentionally. And for everyone that is saying that Microsoft should quit whining, Microsoft has paid dearly for losing its Anti-trust case. Apple should have to play by the same rules, and just because Microsoft bullied them before doesn’t mean they become exempt from Anti-trust regulation.

It was only a matter of time before this happened - its the cost for being on top.

Microsoft is simply making a statement - you did it to me, i’ll do it you. Maybe this was preconceived, send a subpar MP3 player (Zune) to market fully aware that it would never out sell IPod, but rather use Zune to build a court case against Apple. In the end Apple will be forced to support Microsoft’s audio format which will ultimately benefit Microsoft.

i think you said it best jon,

apple makes products for the ‘average’ consumer…..correct.

now lets define average consumer:

average consumer (noun)- a person so retarded they cannot comprehend the basic requirements or common sense needed to use even the simplest of technologies.

when MS was being sued for it’s alledged monopolistic practices, all you apple noobs raved ‘it’s about time, MS this & MS that…yada, yada, retarded yada’

now that apple is being sued on the same principles, all you can say is ‘MS is wrong, apple is right, yada, yada, retarded yada’

you simple-minded technology retard noobs make me sick…grow some brain cells and use a little common sense.

the xp pro audio system you purchased that was hugely expensive, would not have been nearly as expensive or have any crashing problems if you knew even the most basic components of computers and how to configure and use them.

how come my windows PCs never crash when i use them to their fullest component and OS capabilities? (not just browsing and listening to music as you basic noobs do when you complain about the crash because some crap software you allowed to load browsing your http://www.imatechnologynoobretard.com web sites)

answer: because i took the time to become a master of the technology not just a noob user. why buy something i’m not going to learn to use correctly and to fullest extent? it wouldn’t make sense.
(you’re the lamer retard noobs that never read a manual that comes with your brand spanky new technology. all you can do is show all your retarded techno noob friends what you have in a braggart kind of way; then complain when something fails and say it’s the products fault)

don’t blame your bad experience on xp, blame it on the fact that you don’t know how to use simple Windows OS features/configurations other than pressing a power button and clicking a shortcut.
(i mean really, if you knew anything about todays technologies and computers, you wouldn’t have had someone else build your system for you, especially since you need a ‘pro audio system’ that you seem to rely on for making a living and helping create your lifes work….music)

if that doesn’t work for you, try hanging yourself so this world has one less retard in it to hold your hand every time you need to use a simple piece of common sense technology.

Does Windows Media Player play mp4s?

I am a “tweener.” I am a PC and Mac user. I use ITunes on my HP/PC laptop. I own an IPod. I had a mp3/wmv/wma player. It sucked. I only use mp3 and mp4. I like components of Windows more than Apple has me locked in on Itunes.

Windows Media player always stunk. I hate the shopping aspect of it. I have trouble burning CDs. Why would anyone use WMA/WMV/AAC anyway? Microsoft has a monopoly on office products.

Hey, what about just making a machine called the Win/Mac? The Windows logo with the Apple logo cut into it?

Sounds like this last guy got sold on some CRAPWARE if you ask me. I have run an Audio Production software on my Windows XP pentium 4 and I have produced tracks you wouldn’t think came out of my basement. Get some real hardware and a real peice of software and don’t try to cut corners. I agree with this charge, its about time someone other than MS has to deal with these issues. Like I have said Apple is the new Microsoft, just not in the OS arena, even though Apple is doing alright there. I wouldn’t buy an iPod for the inconvenience of having to be strapped to iTunes. I like to drag and drop on my mp3 player, how much easier is that?? Zune it people, its much better and less hassle. Oh and don’t forget the record labels are pulling their music from iTunes.

Ah. A market that Microsoft can’t control. So they sue.

Apple came up with a way to allow people to download and transport music easily. And it has been wildly successful. Now Microsoft wants to take over, or stop the IPod steamroller. Too bad.

As long as an IPod can play an unlocked MP3 (as Steve from Danbury, CT, stated), I really don’t care.

The IPod (and ITunes) is truly what is meant when one talks about innovation in the marketplace and free enterprise.

Shame on Microsoft for acting like a spoiled brat. They should spend less time on whining and more time on working their own products and ideas.

What you Apple Zealots don’t realize is that if Apple is deemed to hold a monopoly in the online music business, they will be forced to play by different rules due to government regulations.

This means that, since they are a monopoly, it is quite possible for the government to force them to include support for any technology that the government would deem fair to the market. Including WMA.

You can cry about it all you want… but that’s just the way it is. You can thank our legislators for the the antitrust laws.

Of course, I don’t seem to recall you all having a problem with this when Microsoft was being forced to do the exact same things… so mind your hypocrisy before you start complaining too loudly.

-D

wow, that just cracked me up !

I think it’s of note that an individual is bringing suit here not Microsoft.. so all the Bill-bashing is yet again misplaced. It does however, reiterate how much of an iHole Jobs is.

Why don’t they do something productive and sue OPEC!

After seeing MS turn its back on Plays for Sure customers I wouldn’t want to partner with them.

This really is funny to see. I’m a musician and had a pro audio computer running Windows XP Pro, it was custom built and hugely expensive. That turd crashed constantly using only a fraction of it’s supposed capabilities. Windows Media Player was the default program to play CDs and .wav files that I had mixed from my DAW software, and the thing was buggy to the point of being unusable. It wouldn’t burn a CD, it would crash constantly, it wouldn’t read certain .wav or mp3 files at random, it was absolutely retarded. Honestly, why would a rational human use that crappy program or an MP3 player that had to interface with it? iTunes is free, and it’s so superior and user-friendly that it has dominated the market due to the quality of the product, not any supposed “illegal business practices”. Things like this are why Apple is coming on so strong in consumer markets - they put out products that are easy to use for the average consumer, relatively bug free, and they actually SUPPORT their products via Applecare. I’m a Mac newbie, but I have 2 now and 5 iPods, and stock in the company. I was hooked for good after calling Applecare for the first time on my MacBook pro and getting spectacular customer care, for free. WMA = VHS.

I may not have all the facts, but I thought:

1. if you can use WMA are you just not introducing another DRM into the equation?
2. you can add “mp3″ to your library, so you do not have to adhere to any restrictions. You do not need to use either WMA or AAC.
3. the use of the Fairplay DRM was to placate the record labels - you can now buy more tracks without ANY DRM.

The only thing that you are “locked into” is the use of iTunes, but do not most of these modern digital players require some sort of “music management system”. Its better than MS’ Fairplay, where by anything you bought before is now “broken” as it is not supported anymore?

It is true that APPLE has a the lion’s share in sales of digital media and their players - but most uses only use iTunes to manage their music. If you counted the number of active players against music/video with Fairplay AAC, it will probably be in the single/low double digits.

Steve Job’s did to the music industry, what Gates did to the software industry!

Think back Sony’s pre-tech strategy!

I’m sure there are more plaintiff’s behind this meritless lawsuit…scratch and sniff test will show!

OK… the post I made earlier is not entirely correct — Microsoft’s Zune player (Zune 2.0) also supports unprotected AAC files, much the same way as the iPod supports unprotected WMA files.

But my argument still stands… Apple shouldn’t be sued for doing what Microsoft also does. And Apple have also released tracks on iTunes Plus, which is unprotected AAC audio @ 256 kilobit quality, which is a far cry from what other companies have published thus far.

Two more links to look up, if I may:

http://www.zune.net:80/en-us/products/zune80gb/specs.htm
http://www.dolby.info/consumer/technology/aac.html

Thanks!

How about Adobe, which hasn’t supported the apple media QuickTime?

By this rationale, anybody who choses Blu-ray over HDVD or vice verse has to automatically license the other technology as well. This is totally ridiculous because it is NOT like there isn’t a cross-platform solution for PC users like there now exists for Internet Explorer (in which Microsoft is still creating their browser only type software codes). This is a money chase pure and simple and the worst form of shark lawyer ambulance chasing. Shameful and disgusting.

This is completely ridiculous, and the case should be thrown out, on the grounds that Microsoft could (and probably should, if this suit continues) be equally sued for not supporting industry standard media technologies such as AAC (Dolby Digital) and MPEG-4.

One reason why iPod is successful is because it supports a vendor-neutral, ISO-standard file format… AAC. Go look up:

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/technologies/aac/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding
http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/EN/bf/amm/
http://www.vialicensing.com/Licensing/MPEG4_FAQ.cfm?faq=6#6

This is is the stupidest lawsuit yet. Monopoly is not illegal.
WMA is not an open format. It has windows in its name, this means it is tied to a proprietary system that costs money (Microsoft windows).
My question is why did Microsoft stop updating Windows Media Player on a mac. I can’t play content from Bloomberg for example on my mac…

It is also incorrect that Apple supports oly hte AAC format. this is on the iPod side. itunes can convert any file for you including MP3 and WMA… Bogus waste of lawyers time. if it were serious, Microsoft would have jumped first to sue AAPL.

So, because Apple is not willing to pay to use MS’s DRM they are bad? Guess what, as long as the iPod can play unlocked MP3 files who cares?

Hey MS, if you sell non-DRM tracks they will play on the iPod. Consider that some free advise.

Sweet!!! Go Apple!!!

Apple has the absolute right to determine/specify/require/limit the formats its devices play and are compatible with.

Maybe MSFT should be forced to rewrite Excel so its macro’s work on the Macintosh.

WMA is, by the way, a compromised compression algorithm that very few folks consider listenable…

Pathetic. Don’t these people have anything else better to do? Why should apple want to support that rinky dink WMA format? Blame the record companies. They like the security of AAC.

To bad for Microsoft. What goes around comes around. Gates should know that. He sounds like the kid in the play ground loosing in a game marbles. He gets mad and goes and crys to his mommy.
Tom