Why Apple is now worth four Dells

“Gumby: To say “the only thing apple did was the lousy Ipod and Iphone” is like saying “the only thing the Wright brothers did was the lousy airplane”…

Posted By Scott, Los Angeles”

Seriously? Applefans never cease to amaze me with their ridiculous comparisons. iPhone/iPod = Invention of Flight? Come on you don’t really believe that do you Scott? Wright brothers were the first to acheive sustained flight - Apple was not the first to market the MP3 player or the cellphone. What Apple does best it know it’s market and appeal to it.

If price and market share was all that mattered, then the Commodore 64 would still be reigning king in the home computer market today. Let us not forget that Commodore held over 75% of the home computer market in the mid ’80s and no other company has even come close to that success as a single computer company. While Commodore 64s sold for less than $300; PCs and Macs sold for well over $1000 (even Commodore Amigas sold for less than PCs and Macs and had a lot more computing power). Commodore tried 3 times to pull the plug on the C64, but its popularity kept it alive for well over a decade. The point here is: price and market share are obviously not always taken into consideration when making a computer purchase or we’d all be using those famous C64s today.

In short… Commodore can take most of (if not all) the credit for bringing computing to the masses; not Microsoft or Dell!

“Apple has come back and is drinking Microsoft’s milkshake”

There will be blood!!

If all of us were geeks like some of you commentators then Dell would have been doing great. These days, it is not market share that matters but Mind Share. Mind share is only achieved when a brand can create a great and relevant consumer experience. If business is about making money, then which one is better and easier, make a penny each on one hundred people or make a dollar each on two people? You be the judge.

John Goyeau’s analogy of cars and computers was spot on! There is a community of people whose entire IT career is super-glued to Microsoft. They can’t admit that change is imminent, because they don’t know how (although they are slowly beginning to realize that time is running out). I have met some people who are such excessive MS cheerleaders, they might as well be on Microsoft’s payroll. That’s understandable when the product is truly brilliant, but when they ignore the downtime, viruses, complexity, and hidden cost, their bias is on display for all to see.

I have owned everything from a 1981 TRS-80, various PCs, and now a 2008 MacBook. At the high end, Macs beat PCs on functionality for about the same price. I use a PC at work, but only because I have to. The Mac is a personal choice. People who honestly try both are not going to choose a PC very often.

At the low end, Asus EEE and the new genre of cheapie Linux lightweight notebooks is going to eat Dell’s lunch.

As much as Dell and HP think about escaping the clutches of Microsoft, their current revenue stream effectively stops them from doing what the rest of the industry will do first.

Microsoft is unable to compete with Apple on the high end or Linux on the low end. Consumers are going to abandon Microsoft’s middle ground, which is becoming increasingly mediocre.

To put a different spin on Mr. Goyeau’s car analogy: Kia is making plenty of money. So is BMW. I think of Microsoft as the equivalent of GM or Ford — stuck in the middle with no place to go.

Hey Guys

I’m an admitted Mac guy; have been since 1985. I even sold Apple Computers in the mid 90s. I spent over half my time explaining to people why Apple would never go out of business. Wanna know why? Bill Gates would never let it happen. Microsoft operating system would then be a true monopoly and he would have to divest the software division from the OS division. To keep this from happening, he actually invested in non-voting Apple stock to help out Apple. It is funny now, Apple has come back and is drinking Microsoft’s milkshake. To the guy who said he owns a Honda and/or Toyota: These are American cars. Built with pride here in the USA. I actually own a car built by Toyota. It is called a Pontiac Vibe. Got a better deal from the GM dealership. Not many people know that this car is made by Toyota. (74,000 miles in 4 years with no problems). I also bought an HP badged 4th Gen iPod. They did not know how to market it, and I got a big discount. Get ready for the new 3G iPhones. Apple underestimated that they would sell 10 million this year. From what I hear, make it 25 million. Apple is also going to do well with the AppleTV. Why would you buy a CD of Blu-Ray Disc for $10-$30 when you can download an HD movie for $5. How many times do you watch the same movie? I’ve got about 500 DVDs and I bet there are 30-40 with the wrapper still on them. What should worry Microsoft is the possibility of an iCar. I can just see Volkswagon, Honda, and Toyota bidding on the rights to produce it.

I’m sorry I got off the main topic of Apple vs. Dell. The real competition is Apple vs. Microsoft.

One final thought: Microsoft trying to buy Yahoo is just making Google stronger. Ballmer doesn’t have a clue.

Apple has no plans of expanding market share exponentially to the best of my knowledge. Now you tell me what Apple is doing sitting on %160 billion stock valutatioin?? You can beat your heads against moldy walls on how superior Macs are. I dont see Apple growing much more in the future. Even if Apple hit double digit as in the teenies, Apple is still overvalued . Apple ’s iPods and iPhones will be copied and made for much cheaper before too long. Apple is not interested in volume but maximum profit per unit which means Apple is limited!! 90-95% of us cant afford Macs!! or think they are silly widgets with Apple logo enblazend on them…

Grumby: As much as you think you know it, your idea holds no water. Just as soon as Mac market share hits double digits there are going to be all kinds of virus problems for the Mac, huh? You actually think the reason that Macs have no virus is has something to do with market share and nothing to do with the rock solid nature of the OS? Please, this is such a B.S. argument and fantasy on your part. Time to start thinking, buddy. Don’t you think there are thousands of people the world over just dying to be the first to make a successful Mac virus? Come on, this would be the holy grail of hackers and any one of them in the community would love to be the first. Trust me, they are trying and have been for the last seven years of OS X. These hackers would love to teach us smug Mac users a lesson or two. Well guess what, they have not been able to and it hasn’t been for a lack of trying. Now, the day will most probably come when it happens. With the huge number of people trying, chances are someone will eventually be able to release something that could actually do some kind of appreciable damage to a number of Macs. The good news is it will probably be an isolated event and quickly fixed.
Jz 1492-Yes, you have a very interesting and enlightening perspective. It explains the hate.

@John Goyeau: I learned years ago when working for a PC clone manufacturer that you need to follow the money when trying to understand the hatred that comes from the PC fanboy base. From components to system builders to resellers, the PC industry involves countless numbers of people, businesses and investors. They all go mad at the thought of one single company taking away their growth and value, even their job security. Have you noticed most Mac fanboys use reason as opposed to their PC counterpart’s hate?

Mac owners, you can gloat at PC guys all you want as long as Apple is still stuck in single digit market share. If Apple managed to pass that milestone into double digit share, you better start watching out.. You are fools for believing that Apple sells superior and invincible OS. Nothing software is immune to hackers as determined as they are , I just know it…

Yes, there will always be people who prefer to live in bad suburbs, under some bridge or even in some apartment building that would surely disgust any cave man!

It is the way of the world.

But I don’t think that’s the way of 97% of people. I think the vast majority, which you may or may not call middle class or what have you, likes quality and fun and light. They can do without that thing from hell called windows.

They have been misinformed for years!

If you get to read all the 105 comments below, you’ll get the distinct realisation that windows is really hell on earth, it is somber, it is dark and it pulls you down.

Think about it.

And then go watch the Youtube videos someone posted and observe Balmer’s eyes, expression, image and attitude. He is not the devil but he certainly is one of his goons…

It’s all a matter of taste. I just happen to prefer the light.

All MAC users are idiots. They are going to bash windows and scream to the rafters that apple is the best.

But in 3 years from now - Apple will still only have < 8% of the market share in the US.

So shut up - apple sucks - if it was so awesome - then why are they not in double digit market share?

Proud Microsoft user!!!!!

Look folks, you cannot reason with these windows people. No amount of argument will ever help them. You cannot substantiate your argument about the superior quality or usability of the Mac OS. You cannot try to convey the pleasure of using Mac OS. You also cannot try to explain the non existence of the windows virus problems, nor share your joy about the superior Mac software. The reality is they just don’t want to hear it. They can’t because they have decided to hang on to their stupid Dells and dumb XP with white knuckles. They know they have been duped by Micro$oft and are too entrenched to change. These people are the type that would drive by in their Kia Rio and try to reason their choice was better when they see you drive by in you BMW 7 series. They will say it’s overpriced while ignoring that it’s one of the finest machines on the planet. They will ignore that it has GPS, AC, performance up the wazoo, and every option standard. I say leave them alone and let them keep their stupid Vista. There are people that will never choose quality. They will always buy junk. There is a market for them and there are companies for them. One of those companies that sell low quality stuff to them is Dell. Don’t be mad them. It’s in their nature. We don’t want them polluting our environment and we can just go along enjoying our machines while sneering at them all the way.

This is not that hard folks….

We had about 100 Windows based machines and three IT guys to keep them running.

We upgraded to all Macs, for the 6 or 7 machines that need to run AutoCad we use Apple’s boot camp… (works great and faster then the Dell’s we replaced)

Bottom line, with our all Mac office we now have one IT guy part time. That helps my bottom line and for the little extra money we spent on the Macs, we have saved even more by cutting the costs! (.5 IT guys vs. 3)

wow a lot of idiotic comments from windows droids… why are they so threatened by Apple? Could it be that some work in the IT industry and half would be out of work if OSX gains more market share? ;P

Some are the same idiots that believe in so called annalists that downgraded AAPL when it was in the high 150s that now tells you to buy it in the 180s.

William, the Mac OS is actually about as easy to customize through Apple Script and Unix terminal as Windows is. In some respects, if you are comfortable with Unix, more flexible than Windows.

It’s all a matter of taste and preference.

Forgot to mention that Kitchener is in Ontario, Canada in case anyone is interested.

PS I bought Apple stock back in 1998 and got out before the burst of the tech bubble. I bought back in during 2003 and have been smiling since…

Good post William, but one clarification. In the benchmark test, they did one set with the mac running XP and it was faster than the Windows PC.

I have been using macs since the early 90’s (in that time I have only owned 4 different macs because they last a long time) and am very impressed with them for many of the reasons listed in the posts. I have found them easy to use, they do what I want, and don’t break down. The only upgrade I have ever needed or wanted to do was RAM, and it was extremely simple.

I have to use a PC for work and it generally does what I want, but I prefer a mac to a PC anyday. We use a mac at home, and I have converted my wife (and her whole family) from PC to mac.

People are getting sidetracked about what this article is saying - 11 years ago Michael Dell thought that Apple was no good and should be shut down, but since then Apple has shined and put out some great products (remember, 1997 was before even the first iMac) and how are worth more than Dell.

That’s all I have to say.

I just bought the New IMAC 24 inch with the 2.8 ghz and 2 gigs of ram… It is Far Superior to WINDOWS… Friends don’t let friends do windows…No crashes, no virus’ no spyware adware, malware and no popup window that asks… “Do you want to send this error report to Microsoft?”..

Why would anyone in their right mind want to buy a new Mercedes SL600 when you can buy Yugo parts and build a car for yourself much cheaper? We Yugo owners don’t need no stinking high priced parts to build our cars.

Is Gumby the same Fumbly Gumpy in charge of repairs at Dell or is he really outsourced Garble Gumpy in charge of customer support from Dell’s India call center?

To William:

Your comment is certainly biased. I think it is fair to say that we all have a bias to one degree or another. Here is how I see it:

That is great that you want to edit your registry. You do that via the command line, i.e., regedit. FYI: The Mac has an equivalent you know.

But, the bigger picture is, most people don’t want to edit their registry. They don’t want to see a command line. Regardless of the OS.

Ultimately, there isn’t anything you can do on a PC that you can’t do on a mac, or vice versa. However, the difference comes down to usability and intuitiveness. On a Mac you spend less time working on a computer and spend more time doing the things you want to do. And people are taking notice. One only has to look at Apple’s impressive marketshare gains and Microsofts Vista flop to come to that realization.

To William R:

Talk about the teapot calling the kettle black! You admit that you are not a Mac user, yet you assert inaccuracies about the Mac OS being a hand holding system. How would you know the first thing about the Mac OS if you are not a “Mac user”?

I have 3 PC’s operating on XP and/or Vista. I also have a Mac running both OSX as well as Vista and am well versed in all the operating systems and general computer functions. The reality is that any PC (including Dell) running windows requires much hand holding unless you are well experienced in the programming operations of the OS being run. Where with Mac OS, little or no hand holding is required. The Mac OS being the hand holder is what makes the OS so simple to use for anyone. The OS allows you to do just about anything you want to do without knowing how to program or having vast amounts of computer experience.

My 6 and 7 year old children NEVER ask for help doing or finding something on the Mac, but always ask for some type of help when using the Dell, Toshiba, or IBM that we have. Why? Because someone with experience has to show them how to do something, or where to find it on the PC’s where the Mac just lets them do what they want. They regularly crash the PC’s and have yet to crash the Mac - after 5 years of playing on the computers!

Proof and backed up! Next time you want to make proclamations about something you have no admitted experience with, maybe you should get the experience first before making yourself look bad. Mac gives the best of both worlds and makes it easy. Get over it.

To respond to William Macon’s comment that Windows allows you to do more when he wants to. He clearly does not have much experience with Unix (which OS X is) whose tools and infrastructure predates windows and are far more mature and flexible. Of course, you may have to learn how to write a shell script, but you will find that Unix allows for much more ‘freedom’ than Windows could ever boast.

So Macs cost more. So what. I like them (particularly the OS), I can afford them, and they last MUCH longer than some cheapo Dell.

Why waste your time trying to convince Mac users that PCs are the way to go because they’re cheaper? Why waste your time attempting to knock down anyone using a Mac? What are you, in high school?

I could care less what you use, and there’s no chance of anyone changing my preference. Sounds to me like these vocal PC users have self-esteem issues with what they perceive as smugness on the part of a minority of Mac users.

In the end, people use what they use. And in my case, I could give two stones less about what anyone thinks about it. I just think its funny that certain PC users always raise a stink about it. Hilarious.

“From a PC user’s point of view, and I’m looking at it from a builders perspective, Apple deoes overprice their products. But even to a normal user, you have to think how cheap Apple is getting their components. They get parts cheaper than anyone who builds because they order direct from the manufacturer. Even Mac users who know something about computers must admit that they are a tad rediculous on the pricing.”

William .. it’s all relative.. Apple designs different systems, they have a R&D department that actually does R&D if in fact the internal components are the same,
motherboard, case ,OS, drivers etc.. are not
to that, add a very superior customer support and yet system to system it’s been shown over and over that Macs are very closely priced to equivalent PC’s
that is a fact

When did this turn into a Mac vs. PC discussion?

This is about Dell and Apple.

From a PC user’s point of view, and I’m looking at it from a builders perspective, Apple deoes overprice their products. But even to a normal user, you have to think how cheap Apple is getting their components. They get parts cheaper than anyone who builds because they order direct from the manufacturer. Even Mac users who know something about computers must admit that they are a tad rediculous on the pricing.

And to the person making the benchmark comparisoons between the Leopard and Vista computers, I will admit that th benchmakrs are correct. But I assure you, if tboth computers were running the same OS, Mac, XP, Vista, Linux, whatever. The PC would be better. It’s not a hardware argument. It’s all about the OS and the bloatware Dell puts on there. I amIn no way supporting Dell, but if you are going to insult them and their product, back it up please.

As far as Mac being a superior OS, I have to disagree. I believe that it may be a safer one. But it also tends to hold your hand. I want to be able to do what I want to my OS, when i want to. Not saying by any means that Windows allows for this, it doesn’t. But it certainly gives me a bit more freedom. Sure, I may have to learn how to edit the registry, you know, genereally do stuff the OS dowasn’t meant for, but it doesn’t matter, it gets the job done.

I see a lot of elitist fanboys in this thread and it pisses me off. I can’t stand completely bisased POVs. Granted I am not a Mac user, but still, I can say that they are decent computes for what they are advertised for. They are good for people who need a computer for media, video/music editing, and basic computer tasks. Which leads me to my second point:

I have never understood why mac people are always pulling the “Video/Sound editin” card. Can someone explain this to me? Is it just because of the software? Because if that’s it, I can almost tell you without a doubt in my mind that there is a windows equal of it, if not better.

I hope I’m not coming off as a complete idiot. like I said, I don’t want to bias my opinion, but I may have.

I absolutely love Dell computers, Windows and all Microsoft and Symantec products. It has made me VERY WEALTHY by the tech support fees I have been charging my clients all these years. LOVE those software “upgrades”!!!

I can careless about market cap, profit margins and stock prices; I only care about billable hours.

Thank you Michael Dell and Bill Gates for letting me purchase another house and more cars!!!

Price?

If you want to compare price between Mac & PC, you should compare the same model on the CPU. A Core 2 Duo use in Laptop(and low end Macs- Mini, iMac, MacBook & MacBook Pro) in general is more expensive than desktop version of Core 2 Duo. PC manufacturer choose the desktop version because they cost less but come with a big heatsink. If you actually compare the price base on identical CPU, iMac is actually cheaper than Dell XPS One and Gateway One(Both use the similer CPU like iMac)

Talking about upgrade is easier and cheaper in PC is not quite through(at least not 100%) and it didn’t apply to majority of the PC user as well. Most user will buy a PC and just use it as it is. Only considering the upgrade after 1-2 years later. This is where the problem come. let’s look at the graphics card. Assuming you are using the AGP. So is you motherboard using 1X, 2X 4X or 8X. Even worst is the new standard is PCI-e. So if you want to have the latest and the greatest graphic card, you are out of luck. You will have to consider a replacement motherboard. Op, now you CPU and RAM do not fit into the new motherboard. The HD is PATA, too slow and too small. Need a new SATA drive.
Even you manage to upgrade all those hardware at “cheaper price”, you will find that you Window XP license no longer work, have to buy a new copy. Because M$ treat that a a new PC, you need a ned license. So most people ended up throw that away and buy a new PC.
Let’s say you decided to buy a “Branded PC” like HP or Dell. Unless you have the factory pre-configured to what you need, you will be out of luck to upgrade the Memory, HD or anything yourself because you can get it “cheaper”. Because all the “Smart Branded PC” have a seal sticker on the box to prevent you from opening it yourself. If the seal is broken, it’s out of warranty.

So draw your own conclusion. either spend a little bit more on the Hardware that will last you 2-3 years(Mac will last longer than this) or buy a new “Cheap PC” every 12 months(According to Steve Job, those hardware are not worth building and selling, not because of the price but the the performance that will give the user great experience when they use it)

Last thing is if you compare Apple with Branded PC, base on identical spec. Mac is either the same price of cheaper.

Clone of Mac Mini is more expensive than Mac Mini
Clone of iMac give you less and cost you more
You can’t get a Top end 8-core Xeon PC cheaper than Apple Mac Pro.

You know I go out and buy that furniture that you get in parts and assemble yourself. Its SOOOO much cheaper than buying other furniture that’s WAY over priced. The fake wood grain looks mostly the same as real wood and for most people wont be a dramatic difference at all. This stuff will last a couple of years, at least and then I can buy new furniture. I heard if you go out and buy the raw materials and cut it yourself its even cheaper!

Sorry, should have italicized the quote from Apple’s conference call.

And gumby is clearly a troll, just desperately seeking attention. He might be better off just staying with the Internet porn.

Rob wrote:

Apple also makes more on Ipods and music than it does on it’s PC business

From the official transcript of the most recent quarterly results conference call:

I would now like to talk about our Mac products and services, which represented 59% of total quarterly revenue. We are extremely pleased to have shipped 2.29 million Macs, just shy of the record number of Macs we sold this past holiday quarter and representing 51% growth over the prior March quarter’s results.

Do some research, dillhole.

I grew up with mac’s, I used one for 90% of my time spent on a computer until ‘01. Which is when my gaming interests switched from being primary console to primary PC. Even though I’ve used an apple computer for less then 2 hours last year I think they more then deserve the hype. Apple does an outstanding job on their products, the only laptop I will consider buying in the next year will be a mac because of how well designed and built they are, running windows is a bonus. (not to say I think OSX is bad, it’s probably my favorite but most of what I do revolves around windows only products.) I don’t think of Apple as a hardware or software manufacturer, I consider them an experience manufacturer, not only do they mesh their software and hardware together but they put a lot of effort into the packaging. I remember when I bought my ipod photo how amazed I was when I pulled the box open and saw the packaging laid out; I also had a similar experience when my friend bought her iphone.

The thing to remember when it comes down to Mac vs. PC arguments is that a person buys a specific computer for a specific reason. It might not make sense to us because generally we only see computers from our point of view.

If presented with this argument the average consumer will do a few things:
not care
decided it’s to technical and tune it out with happier thoughts of football

@ Rob:
“You cannot buy a new mac for $599″

Check http://www.apple.com/macmini/

@ Everyone:

If you get right down to it this entire argument has no basis for discussion as both Apple and Dell are completely different. The thing to keep in mind is Apple sees themselves as a software company who believes that “People who are really into software should design their own hardware.” Dell assembles computers with OEM parts and software and works to cater to a wide variety of markets; where Apple creates products for anyone who wants the most cohesive experience between powerful software and hardware that is designed very well both in form and function. I can sit here and make price comparisons between computers all day long and it wouldn’t matter for two reasons:
1) Apple does not even attempt to cater to every market. That is obvious by the number of people on this forum who express their dissonance over Apple’s product line and price points. If you are not impressed your probably not in Apple’s target market, at least not yet anyway.
2) It’s all a personal preference. I know plenty of experienced people who prefer to build their own computers. It can be a fun and rewarding experience. I have done it myself for gaming. I have friends who work in IT for local companies that buy Dells because they fall in budget and have the staff to support them. But I also know a good deal of people who prefer to purchase from companies like Apple where they can get free face to face technical advice, support and training in their home cities as often as they like instead having to purchase expensive phone support from Microsoft or call an outsourced tech working in India or the Philippines.

Gumby is deluded. Severely deluded.

I have spent considerable time on both PCs and Macs both in a work and home environment and what I’ve found is that I prefer the Mac for this one reason:

Every mac that I’ve ever used just does what it is supposed to do without requiring me to be an expert in hardware, software, networking or anything else.

I’m in Finance, have spent considerable time recording and producing pro audio, graphic arts, and the standard stuff that the majority of people do..ie, email, word processing, web browsing.

Every PC except the insanely locked-down Networked machine that I use at work requires me to update software weekly and sometimes daily, fiddle with registries, look for and then download drivers, watch for viruses (or upload updates most weeks on my anti virus software) and wait forever for most applications to start.

My mac however is simply plug in and go. Most applications are simply intuitive and the machine just connects with pretty much anything that you plug in instantly. It is also two years old and runs the latest OS with no problems.

I’m not ashamed to say that I view myself with my computer the same way I do with my car…An end user. I don’t want to work on my car, I just want it to perform well all the time. Consequently, I drive a Japanese car that does great with basic regular oil changes and checkups. I’ve been thru the experience of owning cars that required constant maintenance and fiddling and I frankly don’t have the desire or the time. I feel exactly the same way about computers.

I think that a lot of people feel the same way and are making the switch to Apple because they are tired of the hassle of a computer that only functions well with constant maintenance, tweaks and upgrades.

Dan

Gumby assumes that Mac’s aren’t as “infected” as MS Windows PC’s because of their MARKET SHARE?!? Are you kidding me?

The psychology of a hacker/virus programmer is a need for fame (selfish egotism) or international recognition. How would one who seeks such international press more easily achieve it?

BY BEING THE 1st TO INFECT A MAC IN THE WILD!. Why write yet ANOTHER of thousands or bugs for MS Win when you can write ONE for MAC and achieve MORE infamy??

@rob from Greensboro…

Two words: “Mac Mini”

Go look it up. Sure it doesn’t come with a monitor or keyboard for the lowest price, but I trust you already have a such things and can therefore (indeed) get a Mac for $599.

Thompson

Rob, Greensboro said: “You cannot buy a new mac for $599. The cheapest IMac is $1199″

Reread the Micheal’s post again, he said “Mac Mini” not “iMac”. The Mac Mini is indeed $599 and is the cheapest mac currently available.

To the MSFT and PC folks I can only point to the numbers and share this simple true story. Go ahead and confirm it on any financial website.

I don’t remember the exact date but back in mid-2004, I got concerned that all my equity investments, in my Roth IRA, were all in AAPL. (I do have a number of other types and I have a well balanced portfolio of investments). So I decided to diversify.

On the assumption that people would continue to purchase personal computers with some operating system, I sold half my position at $28 and bought MSFT. Within a few weeks, APPL was at $33 and MSFT was $27 so I reconsidered and sold MSFT and put it all back in AAPL. Since then, AAPL has split and now it’s $181. Any MSFT fan, want to tell the rest where MSFT is today. Don’t know? I can’t help myself it’s the devil again… it made it to $37 but it’s back down to $29! Back out the split and MSFT is up $2 in four-years and AAPL is up $334.

You PC folks keep talking AAPL down and I’ll keep smiling

Why Windows users have a lower IQ….

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo&feature=related

Why do PC users feel the need to attack Apple and OSX ?

what is it ??? I a looking for an intelligent answer so Gumby need not apply..
Can some PC lover explain why you have this need ??

@ Gumby “They are damn lucky they live in America where it is still safe to live unlike other countries..”

Ahahah please keep posting, it’s been entertaining.

One thing this Mac versus PC comment threads surely proves is that Mac users are way more intelligent than PC users.

Take a look at Gumby and Rob. Q.E.D. - Quod Erat Demonstrandum!

AND if you compare Mac users’ comments to PC’s, you’ll also conclude that Mac users are way more articulate than PC users. Read for yourself: 73 comments below!

Furthermore, a research study has found that people will become more creative and happy just by being in the presence of the Apple logo. Can you believe that?!

Well, I believe in my experience. And it’s on its way to 20 years with both Macs and Windows PCs and, believe me, Macs are infinitelly better than PCs. You see, they are more intelligent(ly designed).

Which at the end of the day, month, year, life, makes it a far cheaper purchase. AND much more FUN!

It’s a widely known fact that any network of Macs needs 1/5th or fewer Desk Support Techies the equally numbered Windows PCs network requires. How’s that for cost?

Mac users spend their time having fun or doing profitable productive work on their machines, Windows users spend their time showing off their butts while wearing off their jeans on their knees under a desk taking in and out cards or installing pirated software or cranking out viruses or formatting their worn out beaten hard disks.

Talk about being delusional: it’s been scientifically proven that Windows users like to fondle graphic cards and enjoy listening to noisy fans and smelling PCs’ system parts spending their time in delusional thinking that they have a clue about computers simply because they can take in and out video cards or know the BIOS version of their incompatible but nonetheless cheap motherboards.

Thus it’s been scientifically proven there will always be a market for Dell computers and flea market system parts because there will always be people yearning to spend time with smelly noisy ugly machines instead of with beautiful women like Mac guys do!

Now, why would I say such a darn thing?!

It’s only logical that beautiful women will always go for the intelligent DISCERNING male because they know that, contrary to Windows PC users who *have* to spend ALL their time melting their brain out in order to TRY put that half-*SSed pile of metal + screws to work, Mac guys will have time to spend with them.

Oh, and Mac guys are better looking too!

I think its hilarious that my son in third grade has a vastly superior OS than I have as a computer engineer. Due to various compatibility issues we haven’t been able to migrate to Vista yet. At this moment it looks like my company will wait for Windows 7. My son at school can instantly search the hard drive with Spotlight. If he remotely connects to a server he gets a different desktop than the other 9 users it can accept. But at work I have to wait hours to search my hard drive and when we login into the server we usually kick any other user out of the server.

What never fails to amaze me is how there are so many people who zealously defend Microsoft, and rip on Apple.
Folks, MS has an excess of 90% of the market.
Just how is Apple such a threat to you? You act as though Apple is the 90 plus percent, and a threat to the existence of your precious Microsoft. Get real.
I have to wonder if the fact that MS imitates Apple’s features in a third rate manner and always years late does not somehow dig deep.
Again, MS defenders, MS is a monopoly, they won the market, they dominate. What is your problem with bit player alternatives?
It also is strange MS defenders hardly ever rip on Linux.

“gumby” is either a mad russian immigrant who hacks PC’s and smokes way too much crack, or Steve Balmer.

In reference to “Sounds like your parents NEED a PC to do business and keep a Mac around as a toy (much as I do).”

It sounds like you are inferring way too much from your comments and substituting your dumb biases in place of any logical reasoning.

I have to run Parallels and Windows on my Mac in order to check just how terribly IE parses my websites. If it wasn’t for that, I would never use it.

Not that it’s a toy, but Windows is such a toilet of security problems and navigation that it is useless to me.

As far as I am concerned, the “toy”

Michael from Cleveland’s comment about his parent’s PC problems compared to their Mac experience is hilarious.

If their Mac is so good why do they need a PC?

Maybe the reason their PC has so many problems is that it gets more use. If I buy two cars and only drive one of them guess which one is going to need tune ups/replacement first. Sounds like your parents NEED a PC to do business and keep a Mac around as a toy (much as I do).

Just a thought,

Sean

Folks who haven’t tried it can’t imagine the efficiency boost they’d get from the Mac OS.

Until they do try it, it’s like arguing with the wall.

But once they try it…BOOM. A light goes off.

Apple—with 6% - 8% of the market— is making half the PROFIT (Not revenue) of Microsoft—with >90% of the market.No they are not, MSFT is making $4 billion a quarter, Apple is making $1 billion a quarter. And a very large portion of Apple’s profit comes from the Ipod, Iphone and Itunes.

#1) Sales are not the same thing as profit, as Dell perfectly illustrates. The markup on Ipods and the songs they sell as a % of profit is still higher than their computers
#2) You cannot buy a new mac for $599. The cheapest IMac is $1199.
#3) Changing out basic parts of a computer like RAM is very, very easy. I did it for the first time in 6th grade having had no computer classes and it was more complicated then than it is now. Graphics cards, sound cards are the same thing. Some are tougher than others (say upgrading your CPU). If people think it is, they could still pay a local computer store $30 bucks to install it (that’s what my father does for some reason). And no, #4) I don’t like MSFT but Apple’s products are overpriced, period. No where is this more transparent than their Ipods vs any other MP3 player. I have had 0 problems with XP (no plans to upgrade to Vista anytime soon) since it came out. Vista is simply too memory intensive. RAM is cheap now but most people still have just 1 GB of RAM.

A Dell is a Chevvy, a MAC is a Mercedes. I’ve been doing film and video editing on a Dual Processor Mac for 6 years, and nothing on the PC side comes close to ease of use, compatibility of files with other video processing software (like After Effects), simplicity of workflow from digitizing to outputting DVD’s, adding music from iTunes, adding photos from iPhoto, everything is drag and drop and no operating system crashes, ever. Apple’s market share has doubled in the last few years, and Dell and Gateway and HP are losing customers to Apple. Some of you PC users who are hard-core Microsoft patriots, please keep deluding yourselves and being shills for an inferior product. If you were concerned about productivity and not just CHEAP, you’d get it.

“In other words, Dell sells a lot more machines, but Apple makes way more profit on each machine it sells.

Translation: Apple is overpriced.”

No, translation is Apple does not have:
a. Machines they sell as loss leaders to get peoople to buy more expensive machine - as in 300-400 PCs that cost more to Dell than they sell them for, nd cause consumers untold headaches;
b. A tax to pay MSFT for each machine sold for the operating system, since they develop their own operating system and spread it across all their products; and
c. A tax to vendors who sell the value added applications (not the crapware, but the real ware) that gets preinstalled on Windows machines that apple provides free, like the integrated iLife applications

Apple makes more money because they have a better profit model than a Dell has. Maybe if Dell invested a little bit of money in R&D and developed their own stuff to be value added, people would want to buy their stuff again….

I finally figured out ‘Gumby’. He wants a POKEY computer. get it? Windows Vista is extremetly SLOOOOOW. Leopard is anywhere from 50% to 1,100% FASTER than Vista on basic tasks such as (ahem) installing Office, copying files, launching a browser, etc…

Microsoft won’t let you PeeCee users have EFI firmware on your ‘clones’. So, your GENERIC computers, that can’t run OS X legally, are really SLOW, even with the same components. What a joke that you think you have a good system and a better value. You PeeCee guys are delusional.

“Apple makes pretty decent products but it is far overpriced for anyone who knows what they are doing and how to shop for a computer”

Overpriced? In the time since my parents bought their Mac mini, they’ve had to replace their PC and take it in for service several times. In fact they’re thinking about buying yet another PC, instead of taking it in again. They have not had one single problem with the Mac, which cost them exactly and only, $599.

“I can replace practically anything inside to keep up with the technological progress”

Some like to say it’s easy to upgrade and replace parts in computers, but the reality is just the opposite for a vast majority of people. They don’t have the time or know-how.

How many people can program and create their own applications? How many people can repair their car when something goes wrong? How many people can make and bake their own bread?

Your argument is silly in today’s society, and it’s fairly lame to assume that everyone else is stupid or lazy because they don’t know as much as you about one particular subject.

I am a long time Apple user. I started back when people used to write their own software when they needed it. I taught myself several programming languages, so that I could do just that. I also taught myself how to fix and upgrade my computers when necessary. Why? Because I was interested in it and loved the challenge. However, I would NEVER expect every one else to be as interested or as capable.

Rob, pull your pants up - your ignorance is showing.

For the last quarter AAPL’s net sales for the Mac portion of its business was a hair under $3.5B, iPods was just over $1.8B, and the iPhone was $378M, so how is it you can make a statement like “Apple also makes more on Ipods and music than it does on it’s PC business?” Rob, you’re not guilty of repeating the same old tired drivel you read or what a buddy of yours told you, are you? Check out AAPL’s latest financials before sucking on your toes.

Dell’s woes are also due in part to their determination to win the race to the bottom of the barrel. How much cheaper can they make a computer and still be profitable? And then to be stuck with having to sell cheap product with a slow, buggy, and bloated OS! Remember Michael Dell saying a few years ago he’d be very interested in selling Dells with OS X on them? Sound like a desperate man to me.

You’re right about Macs being overpriced, but only when you consider your time to be worth nothing. There have been numerous Total Cost of Ownership studies that show Macs are superior to PCs when considering all of the factors - longevity, support costs, productivity, etc.

Maybe you and the other computer experts posting here should spend your time more wisely by going to your local Apple Store to see first-hand why their users rave about their computers, regardless of price. Afraid you might learn something?

The PC brain trust cling to their systems and proclaim their intelligence in a vain attempt to maintain their sanity in the face of the Apple onslaught.

I read your PC magazines and look at what you guys struggle with and just LAUGH. When will you ever get it? Must all the normal people out there shift to Mac before you get a clue?

I was a PC guy once, I know how it is. You think you have a good system. It’s OK, but a Mac is simply better is myriad ways. And if you think a Dell is cheaper, then you are REALLY kidding yourself. Look at the components, the support, the resale value, but mostly the PRICE. Apple is often actually CHEAPER. It’s like getting a Benz for the price of a Ford–simply a ridiculous comparison.

quote>>Apple makes pretty decent products but it is far overpriced for anyone who knows what they are doing and how to shop for a computer.<with the same hardware features< (firewire; gigabit Ethernet; 8 cores at 3 gHz etc), it is often the case that the Apple is -less- expensive.

Apple computers are NOT for everyone, just like the MacBook Air is not for everyone. If you Build-your-Own, the Mac is NOT for you, so just ignore it.

The value in the Mac, is NOT the hardware, which is commoditized, it’s the software. So, the people who build-their-own PC, need not concern themselves. The people who want the cheapest computers need not concern yourselves, because Apple does not sell into these markets.

So, all of those people, need not read this article and need not reply, that if you build your computer from parts, it’ll be cheaper. Yeah, but that isn’t even the topic that Elmer-Dewitt wrote about. He wrote about Apple’s market value vs Dell’s.

And, for those making Apple-bashing comments, if you haven’t used a Mac and its OS, then are you really qualified to comment, seeing as the OS is Apple’s secret sauce?

Apple—with 6% - 8% of the market— is making half the PROFIT (Not revenue) of Microsoft—with >90% of the market.

To say that Gamby need some help, it is an understatement.

“Apple’s are just flavor of the month.”

Very few consumer computer hardware companies have been around as long as Apple has. In fact, I believe Apple may be the last of the originals? Even IBM has ditched the business since then.

I just got my macbook pro for over $300 off. You got anything else for me Bob.List your purchase specs and your purchase price and I’ll find a similar equiped PC for at least 25% cheaper in a couple hours.

Gumby, do one thing for us: demonstrate your confidence in your belief in Apple’s impending collapse by selling Apple short. Then you can come back in a few months with proof of your position by bragging about how much you made. Surely someone as sure of himself as you would have little fear of being proven wrong.

Of course, if you don’t have the courage of your convictions you can simply continue to make a fool of yourself for the amusement of others. Either way we all benefit. Well, maybe you won’t but surely you wouldn’t be so selfish as to deprive the rest of us.

Apple made half the profit MS did with it’s measly 5% of the market. Which company looks smarter to you at this point.
#1) Apple makes computers, MSFT does not. Apple also makes more on Ipods and music than it does on it’s PC business
#2) MSFT is making 4x what Apple is (well over $4 billion/qtr vs 1 bil/qtr for AAPL)The reason, in my opinion, for Dell’s woes can be traced directly to outsourcing their previously vaunted customer service in the US with horrible service overseas. Apple makes pretty decent products but it is far overpriced for anyone who knows what they are doing and how to shop for a computer.

I just got my macbook pro for over $300 off. You got anything else for me Bob.

Gumby, when was the last time you used a modern Mac?

I’ve owned two Dell computers in the past and I am on my last computer. And it is Apple MacBook. You can’t pay me enough to go back to PC.

Gumby - pull your head out of your _ss. These ridiculous moronic rants of yours are polluting the internet. The reason people buy Apple products, and will continue to do so in ever increasing numbers, is that they run better, give consumers a far better experience than anything out there, and in fact are priced at comparable levels to equivalently equipped PCs, and when you take into account all the free and exceptional software you get with it, there is no contest! And lastly, when you look at the total cost of ownership, which includes all the software you need to buy to keep viruses and spyware off, the training, the down time, the learning curve, the operating issues because of buggy and bloated MS products, Apple wins hands down!

Wow, gumby is grumpy. I own apple stock, which makes buying apple products a lot easier on my pocket.

I am a 22 year old college student, I grew up with computers in my house my entire life. We always had problems with the computers running the windows software.
I have owned a MacBook for just over a year now and the one problem I had was fixed for free at the apple store in a matter of minutes.
As for the argument that mac users also buy Hondas and Toyotas.. thats a good point, people buy Toyotas and Hondas because for a few years now they are the better product, and because people bought them it forced our auto manufacturers to produce safer, more fuel efficient, reliable vehicles. This push has helped to make American cars more competitive on the global market. Now I am not sure that Windows products will ever be able to catch up to Mac products, but it’s a challenge that is good for them, good for the market, and good for computer users everywhere.

Macs are far more expensive than a Dell, etc is even with the same equipment. #1 Macs are higher priced #2 Dell, Etc are running $300/off every week on PCs. Example. 2.4 ghz Intel Core 2 Duo with 1 GB of RAM, 500 GB HD, 128 MB Radeon 2400 Graphics card, 20″ monitor in both computers. Apple is $1299. Dells is $749 and comes with a Blu-Ray DVD player! For that matter I can get a Quad Core at dell right now with 2GB of RAM for $649. If you know a bit about computers and can order the parts for yourself, newegg.com, etc you can build them for even cheaper and just do small upgrades over 5 years as needed (eg 4GB of RAM for under $100) on your own. Apple’s are just flavor of the month.

Amazing how all the so called non zealot, non cult like PC waterboys come out in force whenever there is a positive story about Apple. Why should they care? I read the first comment about Mac users not paying attention to economic matters…seek help, you’ve gone beyound being irrational. The truth is Apple is eating up the high end of computing. That’s where the money is at. The truth is that most of the interface concepts used for any MS OS come from Apple. What a conflicted bunch. The truth is most people don’t even know how to add RAM to a computer much less anything else. The upgrade myth only applies to a small percentage og users. The truth is that buying the same machine with a different company name slapped on the front of it is not really choice. The truth is that MS does not innovate they imitate & they do it poorly. Buy what you want…why should you care what others buy? Pathetic. The truth is there is no profit in low end $500 cheap PC’s. They cost 500 bucks for a reason. Marketshare looks good on paper but, profit is what matters. Last quarter Apple made half the profit MS did with it’s measly 5% of the market. Which company looks smarter to you at this point. Dell offers nothing but commodity boxes. Wht does Dell offer in terms of innovation or even ideas for the future? Zip, Nada, Nothing. They are too beholden to MS to do anything different…just like the rest of the industry.

“In other words, Dell sells a lot more machines, but Apple makes way more profit on each machine it sells.

Translation: Apple is overpriced.”

Umm– you get what you pay for. Apple assumes your time is too important to waste futzing with a POS Dell. Apple respects me; I respect them.

we can’t help that a pc is inferior to mac. And why wouldn’t you buy a honda. They are a much better product than any american car. And just like toyota and Honda Apple will win over pc just on pure quality. They don’t need gimmicks.

I suspect that Mac buyers are depending on abilities to sell their 5 plus years old Macs to suckers for premium prices before they go to Apple Stores to buy the latest techological backward Mac except OS… Old computers are supposed to be recycled not sold to suckers!! Once suckers are gone for good, will Apple , too!!

“Shut up and let us go..” What a lame TV ad line!! Dancing away with a earphone stick in ear and a ipod in pocket, Ugh!

CORRECTION DAMMIT! Mac users are the ones who also buy Hondas and toyotas even during the depth of the domestic auto business cycle now in depression. Mac users are NOT paying attention to economic matters at all. They are too busy sticking earphones in their ears and putting iPods in their pockets and dancing around like morons… Mac users tend to block out realities of life and live with themsleves and for themselves… They are damn lucky they live in America where it is still safe to live unlike other countries.. Try selling a Mac overseas…in the Third World, can you?? Not a chance!! Apple just is not capable of competition . Schmoozers is what save Apple. You have no idea what others think of schmoozers as long as you are one of them.. Schmoozers is lower than slug snails waiting to be squashed!!

I can write all kinds of bs about Apple and you Mac owners still doesnt get it… You think like Pollyannas… Oh shucks!! Just sell dump apple stock tomorrow once for all!! I am sick and tired of those lame Mac ads on TV. I missed the Dell dude!! “dude , you are getting a dell “!!

Mac: In both the laptop and desktop showdowns, Apple’s computers were the winners. Oddly, the big difference didn’t come in our user ratings, where we expected the famously friendly Mac interface to shine. Our respondents liked the look and feel of both operating systems but had a slight preference toward OS X. In our speed trials, however, Leopard OS trounced Vista in all-important tasks such as boot-up, shutdown and program-launch times. We even tested Vista on the Macs using Apple’s platform-switching Boot Camp software—and found that both Apple computers ran Vista faster than our PCs did.

PC: Simply put, Vista proved to be a more sluggish operating system than Leopard. Our PCs installed some software faster, but in general they were slower in our time trials. Plus, both PCs showed weaker performance on third-party benchmarks than the Macs. Our biggest surprise, however, was that PCs were not the relative bargains we expected them to be. The Asus M51sr costs the same as a MacBook, while the Gateway One actually costs $300 more than an iMac. That means for the price of the Gateway you could buy an iMac, boost its hard drive to match the Gateway’s, purchase a copy of Vista to boot—and still save $100.

I have 12 years experience using Apple computers and 12 months forced to use a PC. While the PC did what I wanted it to do, it was always more difficult than on my Apple computers. A few more clicks here and there do add up.

Apple $1499.
Hardware 20-in. screen, 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor, 1 GB DDR2 RAM, 320 GB hard drive, built-in Bluetooth and Wi-Fi, 8x CD/DVD burner, remote control, ATI Radeon HD 2600 graphics card.
Software OS X Leopard, iLife ‘08 (iTunes, iPhoto, GarageBand, etc.), Front Row, iWork (30-day SPEED TEST | Click here for detailed benchmark scores
Boot Average startup 28.7 sec.
Average shutdown 4.0 sec.
Install Microsoft Office 4 min. 17 sec.
Adobe Creative Suite 3 31 min. 44 sec.
Program Launch Safari (Internet browser) 3.3 sec.
Microsoft Word 4.2 sec.
Adobe Photoshop 4.0 sec.
Stress-launch Photoshop (w/ 8 apps running) 21.36 sec.
CD rip 3 min. 35 sec

Gateway One $1800
Hardware 19-in. screen, 2.0 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor, 3 GB DDR2 RAM, 500 GB hard drive, built-in Wi-Fi, 8x CD/DVD burner, remote control, ATI Radeon HD 2600 graphics card.
Software Windows Vista Home Premium, Microsoft Works 8.5, Media Center, Microsoft Office (60-day trial).SPEED TEST | Click here for detailed benchmark scores
Boot Average startup 1 min. 13 sec.
Average shutdown 44.3 sec.
Install Microsoft Office 6 min. 25 sec.
Adobe Creative Suite 3 25 min. 45 sec.
Program Launch Internet Explorer 6.3 sec.
Microsoft Word 5.2 sec.
Adobe Photoshop 5.5 sec.
Stress-launch Photoshop (w/ 8 apps running) 40.0 sec.
CD rip 3 min. 35 sec.
Benchmark Test iMac 20-in screen; 2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo; 1GB DDR2 Gateway One 2.0GHz Core 2 Duo; 3GB DDR2
Geekbench

Overall 3180 (2651) 1903
Integer 2766 (339 2324
Floating Point 4460 (2675) 1713
Memory 2299 (1720) 1597
Stream 1916 (1819) 1707
Cinebench
1 CPU 2619 (2429) 1979
2 CPUs 4840 (4641) 3739
Graphics 4819 (3834) 2913
Score in parentheses are for Macs rnning Vista in Boot Camp

Poor stock market having to suffer for the “meteroic rise” in Apple stock price. Apple doesnt deserve that kiind of lofty valuation as other companies like Alcoa or Peabody Coal…. Remember coal burns more cleanly than your stinking fireplace and woodstove that you curl up reading a crummy book by…

I once installed Quicktime a product of Apple in my PC and it is a crummy piece of fecesware!! I uninstalled it and got the refund!!

Overall, the marekt for Macs is limited and will remain limited until Steve Jobs smarts up and start letting others to make more Macs for Steve for lower prices. As for now, Apple stock is way too overvalued…. Apple is through a usual Cicada moth like pent up demand cycle and will plummet once every lame idiot got his own Mac and then burrows into Earth for another 5 years. Meanwhile, Windows will improve so greatly and Macs may be gone for good next time…

If Jobs hadn’t been the ideologue he is for the past 25 years, Apple would have an over 50% market share in the comp market today. But if Jobs wasn’t the ideologue he was, would we have the innovation Apple has bought onto the market? I guess we’ll never know… (chicken/egg, chicken/egg, chicken/egg)

Macs can be infected but they are too few in between on the Web that it is not happening lately. Once Macs increases in numbers, there will be Mac tears flowing down the river…… I cant imagine how lame Mac users can stand that anytime… They will blurt in tears all day!! Windows people will be survivors and prospering… Nothing is static… Mac users had been living in cocoons too long and will be in for rude surprises.. No OS is immune to any kind of attacks.. Windows are much easier to attack because 95 of 100 computers still runs on Windows.. When 10 or 15 computers start running on Mac Os, all hell will break aloose… Mac users will complain and call Apple stores!! Microsoft will overtake as a battle hardened competitor already!!

Those PC manufacturers like Dell , HP, Acer etc are not price competitive. I usually go online to buy parts on fire sale just because they are one year old technologically. Take RAM one gigabyte DDR2 for $9 or $15. Hard drives for $45? LCD monitors for $150? Motherboards with CPUs for $100 or less.. Keyboards for $20? The long list goes on… Now you go to Apple Store and find the same bargains?? You make me laugh…. Apple is not a competitor , period!!! Apple put customers in time cans… They stay inside with no air for 5 plus years then opened with a can opener. It tastes like canned vegetable like oversalted corn, yuck!!

If you dont want to learn the insides of PCs, then buy a Mac as a sucker. It pays to learn how a computer works, then it is gravy going forward.. I can replace practically anything inside to keep up with the technological progress instead of being stuck with same old performance for 5 plus years then charge a fat amount on my credit once again paying exorbitant interest rates all over again. I recently replaced an old video card with 512 mb card . It makes reading fat PDF files so smoothly without bumping along as you scroll down pages. It costed me only $60 with self labor of love all by myself with just a screw. Windows Update install the driver all by itself. I tossed out the CD installation because it is rejected by Windows as non compliant. Windows is getting more strict with driver compatibilities lately. That is the reason people are unhappy with Vistas. Vistas are very strict so to keep bugs and Mac idiots out!! Trust and cooperation is out the window now! We mean business now! I think Vistas is much better than XP but I know that Mac weirods are trying to ruin Windows Vistas like they did to Xp, 98, 95, 3.1 and MS-DOS and CP-M…..

Gads! How much longer is the ‘Macs are overpriced, more expensive than PCs’ Myth going to be perpetuated?

This is really simple, so I’ll type s-l-o-w-l-y: If you compare computers that are manufactured by major computer manufacturers (i.e. Dell, Sony, HP, Apple - not Joe’s White box computer), that are similarly configured (i.e same CPU, same amount of RAM, hard drive, etc), the cost differential between Macs and PCs is approximately $20.

Don’t believe me? Go here - http://systemshootouts.org - pick a price point and compare for yourself.

Just for fun I just went to the Dell site and compared my Mac Pro with the closest Dell had. As far as hardware goes both machines were very close. Dell had a bigger HD, 350 v 320 and had 2 more mgs of RAM. There was a price jump for Vista Ultimate, $150 opposed to OSX which is included.

Taking in to consecration the difference in RAM and a somewhat larger HD plus the price of Vista Ultimate, the price difference is $1500 in Apple’s favor.

Dell is only cheaper on the low end where Apple doesn’t compete

gumby you make no sense at all. I assume English is your second language. Next time try to post clearly and to the point

Apples are not overpriced. If you buy a pc with the same hardware, it will actually cost the same if not more than a mac. Also when it comes to running visa or xp a mac runs both faster than a pc. Pc’s make extremely low end computers. Those are cheap but they can’t hold anything to a mac performance wise.

I’ve had my PC for couple of years now. I always had to spend excessive money to fix it. Excessive money to buy the norton, spam blocker, bug blocker, spyware blocker, roach blocker, and such. PC is like infested with no good bugs. With Apple, it’s just apple. While you can use your mac for 5 years+, you had to buy 3 PC’s + to match the quality, and life span. SO guys, please do yourself a favor, and be a smart consumer. The trend is going to apple, not windows. VISTA copied Apple, and it’s still working like crap. Wait another 5 years and see.

Apple is so much more than a computer company.

Gumby: To say “the only thing apple did was the lousy Ipod and Iphone” is like saying “the only thing the Wright brothers did was the lousy airplane”…

The only guys who compete with Apples are basically suckers…

Mr. Dell worth 3 Mr. Jobs because Mr. Dell has a huge advantage. He could be selling not just PCs but cars, VCRs, cameras, any kind of home appliance…, flowers, cows,…whatever,…and with great success. But Mr. Jobs can only sell things that change the world. Nothing else but Apple IIs, Macs, iPods, iPhones…poor Mr. Jobs.

You can not compare prices with Apple becaue it is the only one you have to accept and buy. This is communism or socialism whatever. That is the reason I think Apple is way too overvalued. Everyone knows about Apple and kick them out the doors. Apple is appealing to the masses that still havent owned a computer yet and are incapable of learning how to operate a mouse. Most of them will migrate to PCs once they learned because of price and competition. Apple Macs is bascially computers with training wheels with very limited applications. That is it… Sure there are repeat Mac buyers because they really hate computers and Macs are like milk and sugar to them.

In other words, Dell sells a lot more machines, but Apple makes way more profit on each machine it sells.

Translation: Apple is overpriced.

Apple benefits greatly from fierce competition of component makers like drives, monitors, motherboards, etc. If Apple somehow managed to dominate the computer market, you would be staring at $5000 computers not $199 bare bone cases…. The PC starts out on trust and cooperation, but Apple users are having none of that as they hacked into PCs and making trouble. We are sucking it in and install anti virus and firewalls and whatnots. Apple users are a bunch of crybabies…Apple is just a waste of space at Wall Street. Sell AAPL it is overvalued at $180 billion.

Apple is worth $180 billion just because Apple managed to earn only $3 billion. Dell earned more than Apple, duh?? Alcoa earned 3 billion yet it is worth ony $30 billion. Apple investors are being set up for a big fall…

Mac users , dont be so coy about quality and such.. Apple had been feeding off the PC hand all along… Intel supply chips to Apple, Microsoft give Office to Apple, Practically every componenet maker take the time to make them for Apple . The only thing Apple did was that lousy iPod and iPhone , yet Apple still rely on outside suppliers for them. In short, Apple simply cannot do it all on its own. We were not really competiting with Apple and we are so kind to Apple.. We understand there are Mac weirdos around and we cant simply extermintate them all and we learn to live with them and you weirdos should, too. OK!???

I have been a mac user for almost 15 years, and paying a little extra is worth the price. i laugh every time i hear pc people talk about fire walls, spam blockers, viruses etc. have never experienced any of that stuff. ever! the mac is so easy to use, that you literally plug it in and go. no windows upgrades to deal with either.

I’v got a Dell desktop and two dell laptops in my family. I don’t know about apple, but Dell is by far the worst computer I have ever come in contact with. There is never a time when there isnt something wrong with the thing.

The true irony here, is not only that Apple is 4x Dell, but that it is NOT because Apple has quadrupled since it first became even with Dell 2 years ago - But rather that as as Apple has gone up in net worth Dell has steadily declined.

Perhaps Mr Dell should return the money back to the stock holders while there is still money to do so.

(snicker)

John, compare a macbook vs the 13.3 inch xps. Put the same specs on the xps and you’ll find the dell is as expenisve if not more so. Dell starts out with low end computers, while apple puts out only high end computers.

@John-

I love this argument. Just think- millions of people have been duped by what is the Apple marketing machine. Millions have fallen into the trap, mindless lemmings scarfing up Apple products without realizing how inferior they really are. Please… you need to give people more credit than that.

There are reasons that so many millions of people buy Apple stuff- could have something to do with quality, or the customer service that repeatedly outranks the other major PC makers. The hardware, OS and apps all work very well together. And just a few searches around the net will give you an idea of how superior OS X is than Vista (or XP for that matter).

People buy Apple stuff because they like it and it works very well for them, better than anything else out there. That’s why Apple is outselling the rest of the PC industry.

Oh John, obviously you’ve NEVER used an Apple machine, otherwise your post wouldn’t seem so silly. I have a pos Dell laptop at work and would trade it for an Apple any day of the week, not for graphics, but for regular functionality an to not have to deal with Microsoft patches every other week. Not to mention my Apple stock that I bought at 24 dollars in 2003. Yeah, I’ll stick with Apple over that D(H)ell.

@ John in Columbus OH

John - if you are happy with your windows machine, fine. Keep at it.

However you say “… an equivalent machine PC is so much cheaper.”

1- “Equivalent PC” i.e. one with similar hardware specs is NOT necessarily cheaper.

2- There is no such thing as “an equivalent [Windows] PC” since (by definition) it comes with windows not Mac OS X. That is what people are paying for.

As a long time Mac aficionado, you should not take my word for the superiority of Mac OS. But look in the many blogs and see how many long-time Windows people who have switched to Macs say “I will never go back to Windows” They are now very enthusiastic Mac users. I can’t help but feel that there must be some good reason for this.

IMHO

What you get with Apple over Dell is an American, speaking English when you have a problem. The quality of the product is better, the operating system is better. The overall experience is better. That is why you pay more for Apple than a Dell.

Dells are cheaper but they are not “equivalent”. In my office we have both Macs and Dells and guess which need weekly attention. In fact, the Dells infect the Macs. Before I shut down, I disconnect from the Dell server, otherwise I may be stuck in limbo half shut down but not fully shut down because the Dell will not let go of my Mac.

If you think that Apple is so much cheaper, look @ the new lineup and compare prices.